should bands carry on when there's only one original member?

[dmccombe7]

Think Kiss without Gene might be a bit poor as he really is the larger than life main character.

 

[geoham]

On 21/09/2019 at 12:45, ambient said:

I’m always surprised about David Gilmour. At one point he was touring with Nick Mason and Richard Wright, yet under his own name.

I don’t think he did, but would be to happy to be proven wrong.

Rick was fired from Floyd around the time of The Wall (then hired as a session musician to play on the live shows!)

The Final Cut was basically a Roger solo album, though David and Nick did play on it. Shortly after, Roger dissolved the band.

A legal case followed, and the result was the David and Nick ended up ‘owning’ Pink Floyd. (In  Roger’s words, they keep it locked in a box.)

Momentary Lapse of Reason and subsequent tour had David and Nick as ‘being’ Pink Floyd, but Rick played on them - apparently due to ongoing legalities.

By the Division Bell album & tour, Rick was promoted back to being a full band member. I don’t believe the three toured together after that. 

Rick was in the band for David’s On an Island tour, as were Guy Pratt and John Carin,  (both played on the final two Floyd tours), as was Richard Parry, who had played with Pink Floyd intermittently since Dark Side of the Moon. 

As to the value of a band brand? Ask Roger Waters. He made no secret of his distaste at Pink Floyd playing the biggest venues in the world - playing many songs written by him - while he was struggling to fill much smaller venues. In saying that, he’s done much better solo in recent years!

George

[ambient]

1 hour ago, geoham said:

I don’t think he did, but would be to happy to be proven wrong.

Rick was fired from Floyd around the time of The Wall (then hired as a session musician to play on the live shows!)

The Final Cut was basically a Roger solo album, though David and Nick did play on it. Shortly after, Roger dissolved the band.

A legal case followed, and the result was the David and Nick ended up ‘owning’ Pink Floyd. (In  Roger’s words, they keep it locked in a box.)

Momentary Lapse of Reason and subsequent tour had David and Nick as ‘being’ Pink Floyd, but Rick played on them - apparently due to ongoing legalities.

By the Division Bell album & tour, Rick was promoted back to being a full band member. I don’t believe the three toured together after that. 

Rick was in the band for David’s On an Island tour, as were Guy Pratt and John Carin,  (both played on the final two Floyd tours), as was Richard Parry, who had played with Pink Floyd intermittently since Dark Side of the Moon. 

As to the value of a band brand? Ask Roger Waters. He made no secret of his distaste at Pink Floyd playing the biggest venues in the world - playing many songs written by him - while he was struggling to fill much smaller venues. In saying that, he’s done much better solo in recent years!

George

I think the live on Gdańsk album features him with Wright and Mason. Wright died shortly after.

Edited September 27, 2019 by ambient

[wateroftyne]

1 hour ago, ambient said:

I think the live on Gdańsk album features him with Wright and Mason. Wright died shortly after.

No Mason.

[geoham]

1 hour ago, ambient said:

I think the live on Gdańsk album features him with Wright and Mason. Wright died shortly after.

Live in Gdańsk was part of the On an Island tour, which did feature Wright, but not Mason. I believe this was the last major gig that Wright performed. It was recorded two years before he died, but released a week after his death. 

George

[tauzero]

Has anyone mentioned Marillion yet? Steve Rothery is the only remaining original member.

[Bluewine]

On 26/09/2019 at 10:28, dmccombe7 said:

Think Kiss without Gene might be a bit poor as he really is the larger than life main character.

 

The role of Gene or Paul can be taught.

Blue

[EliasMooseblaster]

3 hours ago, Bluewine said:

The role of Gene or Paul can be taught.

Blue

Obliquely related to this idea: I remember watching a documentary about Pink Floyd (20th anniversary of The Wall, or something like that) in which David Gilmour said,

"In the past we have definitely thought, we are so faceless that we could probably send a different band up on stage, and a lot of people wouldn't know the difference."

Whilst I think he did himself a bit of a disservice with that idea, musically speaking, there's a similarity with Kiss here - while Pink Floyd made themselves faceless by not putting their faces on their album artwork (I think Ummagumma was the last one to feature a picture of the band(?)), Kiss did the same by obscuring theirs behind the black-and-white face paint. Another man of a similar stature could copy the makeup, put on the togs, and probably make a decent fist of passing for Gene Simmons.

After all, a Kiss show is all about the theatrics (I'm sorry: I've no time for their music), and as long as somebody could put on the same persona, they could probably fill that role and the band could continue in perpetuity. And, much as I don't like their songs, I'd take that over the seemingly endless barrage of crap musical theatre based on exhumed songbooks from yesterday's popular artists that seems to be endlessly clogging up London's West End these days.

[TimR]

Performing other people’s music is easy. 

Composing other people’s music is impossible. 

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

Obliquely related to this idea: I remember watching a documentary about Pink Floyd (20th anniversary of The Wall, or something like that) in which David Gilmour said,

"In the past we have definitely thought, we are so faceless that we could probably send a different band up on stage, and a lot of people wouldn't know the difference."

I was watching a youtube of one of the big Pink Floyd tributes the other day and having seen pink floyd live several times, they were easily as good, and TBH, probably a bit better.

[Bluewine]

3 hours ago, TimR said:

Performing other people’s music is easy. 

 

Not for everyone.

Blue

[Bluewine]

5 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

Obliquely related to this idea: I remember watching a documentary about Pink Floyd (20th anniversary of The Wall, or something like that) in which David Gilmour said,

"In the past we have definitely thought, we are so faceless that we could probably send a different band up on stage, and a lot of people wouldn't know the difference."

Whilst I think he did himself a bit of a disservice with that idea, musically speaking, there's a similarity with Kiss here - while Pink Floyd made themselves faceless by not putting their faces on their album artwork (I think Ummagumma was the last one to feature a picture of the band(?)), Kiss did the same by obscuring theirs behind the black-and-white face paint. Another man of a similar stature could copy the makeup, put on the togs, and probably make a decent fist of passing for Gene Simmons.

After all, a Kiss show is all about the theatrics (I'm sorry: I've no time for their music), and as long as somebody could put on the same persona, they could probably fill that role and the band could continue in perpetuity. And, much as I don't like their songs, I'd take that over the seemingly endless barrage of crap musical theatre based on exhumed songbooks from yesterday's popular artists that seems to be endlessly clogging up London's West End these days.

It wouldn't be suprised if KISS becomes a franchise where you would buy certain rights and perform.

You would have to buy everything from KISS Corporate

 ( costumes wigs make up all production marketing promotion) , meet stringent performance and production standards. If one hair on a wig is out of place you would be fined. They would book you in specific regions .

I really think this is coming.

Blue

Edited September 28, 2019 by Bluewine

[Lozz196]

9 hours ago, TimR said:

Performing other people’s music is easy. 

Composing other people’s music is impossible. 

So true, it’s the creative aspect that is so often overlooked.

[dmccombe7]

10 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

Obliquely related to this idea: I remember watching a documentary about Pink Floyd (20th anniversary of The Wall, or something like that) in which David Gilmour said,

"In the past we have definitely thought, we are so faceless that we could probably send a different band up on stage, and a lot of people wouldn't know the difference."

Whilst I think he did himself a bit of a disservice with that idea, musically speaking, there's a similarity with Kiss here - while Pink Floyd made themselves faceless by not putting their faces on their album artwork (I think Ummagumma was the last one to feature a picture of the band(?)), Kiss did the same by obscuring theirs behind the black-and-white face paint. Another man of a similar stature could copy the makeup, put on the togs, and probably make a decent fist of passing for Gene Simmons.

After all, a Kiss show is all about the theatrics (I'm sorry: I've no time for their music), and as long as somebody could put on the same persona, they could probably fill that role and the band could continue in perpetuity. And, much as I don't like their songs, I'd take that over the seemingly endless barrage of crap musical theatre based on exhumed songbooks from yesterday's popular artists that seems to be endlessly clogging up London's West End these days.

Our very own Cetera used to do an excellent job of Gene Simmons so i guess you're right.

I liked the older Kiss material Destroyer from 76 being a top 5 fav album over the years unfortunately i've never managed to see them but i've seen a few tributes including Cetera in Dressed to Kill and they have been close to the originals as far as image and stage show goes. Maybe not as huge a show but worth watching for me.

Seen Floyd doing the original Wall way back early 80's and the support musicians were playing at one point and sounded just the same. LOL 

I guess any band can be copied.

Dave

[MacDaddy]

9 hours ago, TimR said:

Performing other people’s music is easy. 

Composing other people’s music is impossible. 

[Stub Mandrel]

8 hours ago, Bluewine said:

It wouldn't be suprised if KISS becomes a franchise where you would buy certain rights and perform.

You would have to buy everything from KISS Corporate

 ( costumes wigs make up all production marketing promotion) , meet stringent performance and production standards. If one hair on a wig is out of place you would be fined. They would book you in specific regions .

I really think this is coming.

Blue

Paul $tanley is the Michael Ryan of Rock and Roll 🙂

[tauzero]

12 hours ago, TimR said:

Performing other people’s music is easy. 

Composing other people’s music is impossible. 

"I could play "Stairway To Heaven" when I was 12. Jimmy Page didn't actually write it until he was 22. I think that says quite a lot." - Vim Fuego

Dammit, beaten to it.

Edited September 28, 2019 by tauzero

[Bluewine]

11 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Paul $tanley is the Michael Ryan of Rock and Roll 🙂

Who's Michael Ryan?

 

Blue

[peteb]

I believe that Gene Simmons used to talk about KISS operating as a franchise with others assuming their characters when he & Stanley finally retired. But really, with the growth of tribute bands, what would be the point?? At best it would be like the current versions of TRex or Dr Feelgood. It wouldn't take long before fans stopped caring and they were reduced to slogging around the cabaret circuit. . 

[Bluewine]

I don't know how that franchise stuff would work. You make a good argument.

Do Paul and Gene have kids that would be interestd in carrying the torch?

Blue

[peteb]

1 hour ago, Bluewine said:

I don't know how that franchise stuff would work. You make a good argument.

Do Paul and Gene have kids that would be interestd in carrying the torch?

Blue

You mean does lack of talent run in the family??

[dmccombe7]

5 hours ago, Bluewine said:

I don't know how that franchise stuff would work. You make a good argument.

Do Paul and Gene have kids that would be interestd in carrying the torch?

Blue

Paul Stanley's son is a pretty good guitarist.

[TimR]

7 hours ago, Bluewine said:

 

I don't know how that franchise stuff would work. You make a good argument.

 

 

They’d have to aggressively pursue anyone dressing up as Kiss and playing Kiss songs. It would be very hard to do. 

[prowla]

Here's one passing down the family...

 

[Stub Mandrel]

12 hours ago, Bluewine said:

Who's Michael Ryan?

 

Blue

Boss of Ryan Air, the airline that charges you extra for everything. In case of an emergency a mask drops down and a sign lights up saying 'Insert 1 euro in slot for 5 minutes oxygen'.