Short Scale / Travel / Portable Basses

[Prosebass]

As a few of you will be aware I have been designing and working on ultra short scale (USS) basses with a 28.5" scale
My design brief was for a fully functional bass that fits in a hardcase 36" x 12"
In a few weeks I will hopefully have working prototypes and a first batch of bodies and necks from my far eastern supplier.

If anyone is interested I will be happy to send a prototype out to you for a week or so for assessment and feedback.
I am not however willing to send a bass out just to be "played" and sent back, I need proper critical input.

Therefore if you are interested you could express your opinions in this thread good and bad on short scale basses, what you would like to see from them regarding quality, equipment and price and your general insights.

I will select who I consider the most "worthy" in the New Year and as soon as possible get the prototypes out to you.

So come on get thinking and there may be a bass in it for you in a few months.

Seasons Greetings to all..... Paul Rose

[BigRedX]

I'd be interested in trying one of these if I'm deemed worthy. My first bass and the one that provides the bottom end on most of the recordings my first band made was a much modified Burns Sonic, which sounded great as long as you didn't use the E string, so evenness of tone an tension across all the strings would be an important criterion for me. I'd also want to see 2 single coil pickups (not necessarily J types) with series and parallel switching for full fat sounds.

Portability-wise it would be up against my fake Duke, and while I don't expect it to be as minimalist, it would need to be at least more comfortable if It was bigger.

Are you going for headless or small headstock with guitar tuners?

Overall for me it would need to match the Burns for sound (plus a usable E string) the Duke for portabilty and convenience and my Manne picollo bass for playability.

I'll be following this with interest even if I don't get selected.

[lemmywinks]

Not really interested in trying them (i'm 6'5" so would look a bit silly!) but think it's a cracking idea.

Reckon you'd do well to let bass teachers know about this, i found it very difficult finding a suitable bass for my nephew (he's 10 now), he ended up with a short scale guitar

[Prosebass]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='364830' date='Dec 28 2008, 02:18 PM']I'd be interested in trying one of these if I'm deemed worthy. My first bass and the one that provides the bottom end on most of the recordings my first band made was a much modified Burns Sonic, which sounded great as long as you didn't use the E string, so evenness of tone an tension across all the strings would be an important criterion for me. I'd also want to see 2 single coil pickups (not necessarily J types) with series and parallel switching for full fat sounds.

Portability-wise it would be up against my fake Duke, and while I don't expect it to be as minimalist, it would need to be at least more comfortable if It was bigger.

Are you going for headless or small headstock with guitar tuners?

Overall for me it would need to match the Burns for sound (plus a usable E string) the Duke for portabilty and convenience and my Manne picollo bass for playability.

I'll be following this with interest even if I don't get selected.[/quote]

Small headstock (2 a side) or headless has been a huge headache. I am not intending this to be a boutique bass but a mass produced item (when I am rich I will produce boutique basses)
Watching the threads on headless basses it would seem people who don't like headless basses really don't like headless basses irrespective, whilst generally people who like headless also like headed basses. So to appeal to a wide demographic I am going with a head design (short Gibson) and some ultra lightweight open gear machines.
The other major problem with headless designs is availability of bridge / tuner units. Whilst "Steinberger" units are functional they are unattractive and their offset design unbalances a small body. ETS have some excellent units but at a price that makes them not viable on a £200.00 - £250.00 bass.

[BigRedX]

I think you're right - certainly from a cost POV - to go headed, but you'll need to pick your tuners carefully. Both the Burns and the Duke which use guitar-style tuners, require me to use proper short-scale (30") strings in order for the thicker strings to fit into the holes on the winding posts. The Kramer XKB-10 has full-size bass tuners on it's short scale neck so standard scale stings will fit at a pinch. With your planned scale-length being an inch shorter than the Burns you might want to consider through-body stringing to add the required length onto the string in order to widen your choice of tuners - I have a feeling that most bass tuners may look a bit too clumsy.

Alternatively you might want to consider the advantages of being able to fit cut-down standard scale strings on a go-anywhere bass, when short-scale strings are definitely a custom order in most places...

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I'm into shortscales, my favourite gigging bass is a CIJ mustang, but I also own a couple of musicmasters ('71 US fender & Squier Vista), a danelectro longhorn & a 32" daisyrock elite. My daughter also has a '71 musicmaster and a couple of daisy rocks, so she's a bit of a shortscales connoisseur as well and would be able to comment on the "cool factor" from a teenager's point of view.

The best thing about my mustang for me is that, even though it is a 30" scale, it has through-body stringing, so a set of 32" Thomastic flats fit on it perfectly. Also the neck is very narrow & thin (a guitarist mentioned recently that it feels like a particularly comfy strat neck). With my ideal strings (TI JF 324) I can still get an optimal amount of relief in the neck.

I nearly bought a mini precision when Fender made them a few years ago, I think it was around a 27"or 28" scale, but I was put off by the lack of choice of strings that would fit.

I'd like the opportunity to try a prototype and I'll be more than happy to report back about what I like and don't, giving reasons and suggesting possible improvements.

[redstriper]

I am very interested in this.
The best things about short scale basses for me are - lightweight, easier to play and deeper sound.

My main instrument is an Ashbory which is tiny and very lightweight with a lovely fat sound well suited to reggae.
I got it to replace my old Fender jazz bass which is very heavy and a strain on the old back.
The only problem with the Ash is the intonation isn't quite right and can't be adjusted, also because it's fretless and very short scale, it's hard to play in tune without really concentrating (not my strong point).
I do love it though and prefer it to anything else I've played in years despite it looking like a toy.
I recently bought a new Epiphone EB0 and whilst very impressed by the build quality, it is just too new and clanky and I won't play it enough to bed it in.
I've considered buying a steinberger copy, but I haven't tried one yet and it's still long scale.

I would be particularly interested in a fretless USS bass with maple neck, fret markers (and maybe LEDs) with the weight kept to an absolute minimum and with a very deep dub tone - I don't use any treble in my sound.
It's important to be able to get the right strings and I don't know what's available for USS basses, I like flats and my favourites are rotosound tru bass nylon covered which are available in short scale - not sure if they would be suitable.

To give a better idea of where I'm coming from, the Rob Allen Mouse is my dream boutique bass.
I also like the look of BigRedXs fake Duke and Manne picollo basses which I saw on talkbass.

[Prosebass]

Strings need to be standard and through body. The tuners are very light and compact and will take upto a 140 gauge so no problem there.
Break-angle over the nut is another problem and using larger gauge strings with less tension than normal can produce a hump on the string which causes all sorts of problems with action and intonation.

I have not been too bothered about neck width / depth and have actually gone for a chunky neck shape so it will also appeal to bassists with "normal" sized hands.
It is impossible to build a bass to suit everyone....as I am finding out.

[neepheid]

This year I have discovered the joys of short scale. I got hold of a Squier Bronco and have spent some time upgrading it and am waiting for a DeArmond Starfire to appear (I was supposed to get it at Christmas but it ended up locked in a cupboard in Manchester and the only guy with the key off to Ireland, oops!)

I guess the perception of short scale is "toy" (the fact that short scales tend to be budget instruments with iffy hardware - borne out with the need to improve my Bronco by replacing most of the guts - bridge, tuners, pickup, apply copper shielding) but I'd like to think that with some quality components, nice woods and attention to detail that a short scale can punch above its weight.

And another thing, Squier - why can't you people drill straight? I had to pare back the wood around where a pickguard screw had gone in squint and burst through then glue on a half dowel to make a new screw position.

I'd be happy to try out a prototype for you. I feel that this is a relatively untapped market and if you produce a good quality product then you will do well.

[mrcrow]

my first point of reference would be to go headless
and then consider a short scale
both would be my ideal for space saving and portability

[SJA]

what body shape are you going for?

I like the look of the old Ibanez RB999;
[url="http://www.ibanezregister.com/Gallery/basses/rb/gal-rb999.htm"]http://www.ibanezregister.com/Gallery/bass...b/gal-rb999.htm[/url]

sort of like a headed doublecut Status Streamline.

I had a go on the mini japanese precision, and the strings were very low tension and buzzy, and the headstock weighed down the neck badly.

[The Burpster]

I'd love a pop at disecting one... (in prose of course) and as I have written reviews in other comics I can give you whatever you need.

Travelling basses do appeal to me and I nearly bought a Sinsonido recently for just that reason.

Isnt 28.5" just longer than a Baritone guitar at 28" .....?

That is my next purchase.... FYI....

Cant wait to see them....

[yorick]

It'd be interesting to see some drawings/ a mock up. Have you considered a slotted headstock like on the wishbass designs. Mr Wishnevsky seems to like the design, and he says it keeps production costs down, for him anyway. What about an SG type body shape? Symmetrical, so us leftys can sling it the other way round.

[Spoombung]

Hi Paul, I'd love to try one your new basses when they're up and running.

I'm surprised you've abandoned the headless idea - but I think that's good because of the unbalancing element. Also string- through is a very good idea. Are you going to angle the headstock or have a straight one with string retainers (like a Wal, for instance)?

BTW, since we talked about a short scale I've been sketching out a new body so I look forward to talking to you soon and showing you some of the sketches...

[Prosebass]

Thanks for the input so far gents...in answer to a few of the points raised.......

I'm a bugger for changing designs at the last minute but with this bass I need a basic general design to start with and if it goes well I will add extra models.

I will post the prototype photos when I am happy with it and it is as near to the production model as possible.

Slotted headstocks are ok but I don't like them and it takes longer to machine and finish than a standard design 2 + 2 layout

A symmetrical design sounds ok but from what I have learned bassists generally like an off-set body and as this is primarily aimed at being a practice / travel bass it needs to be comfortable to be played sat down.

Body wise I have 2 designs that have all the essential elements identical, ie top and bottom shaping, body chamfering , distance between strap lugs , top horn extension etc . One is very rounded and traditional in a Fender way whilst the other is very modern with a hint of some 80's designs.

Body material will be mahogany with either a maple or mahogany neck, black hardware , twin pups , passive

[Doc B]

Sounds very good this - I'll be following your work with interest.

[SJA]

I'd say maple neck for more stiffness/less vulnerability to damage (too many Gibson headstocks have parted company with necks all too easily)- especially as this is a travel bass.

slotted headstocks are trickier to restring, and a bit bulkier with the extra thickness and the tuner buttons protruding rearwards- and maybe weaker (more vulnerable) too?

Edited December 29, 2008 by SJA

[leschirons]

Hi, don't need to try one as I live in France now but just for interest, here's a point of view.

I borrowed a Musicmaster some time ago while a mate was away for a month. Although I'd only been used to regular scale instruments, I decided to gig it one night for a laugh. Although a bit short in the tone department, I was amazed at how less generally tired I was after playing it all night. It wasn't the weight, it was the fact that there was just no effort in using it and found that I wanted to play it more and more. Yes, it would look daft strapped on Anthony Jackson but I think you're onto a winner if you can crack the issue of a good usable sound which nowadays should not prove too much of a problem with available electronics. I think there is a market for this product and not just for youngsters with small mits.

[pete.young]

I've had several short scale basses and I'm not really a fan, though i'd be happy to get my Futurama Coranado IV back.

Did you look at the Tanglewood EF18 Mini-elf?

It has something like a 20 inch scale length, sounds quite reasonable, doesn't have any stringing issues - normal 45s fit right on it and allow you to do massive Jerry Donahue style bends. I sold mine, beginning to wish I'd kept it but I don't get many gigs in phone boxes :-) If I was looking for a travel bass it would be at the top of my list.

[MoonBassAlpha]

I imagine a headphone output would be useful on a travel bass, saves carting an amp about for quiet practice. Fails the "passive" criterion though, unless you incorporate a stethoscope style earphone.

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='pete.young' post='367602' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:33 AM']I've had several short scale basses and I'm not really a fan, though i'd be happy to get my Futurama Coranado IV back.

Did you look at the Tanglewood EF18 Mini-elf?

It has something like a 20 inch scale length, sounds quite reasonable, doesn't have any stringing issues - normal 45s fit right on it and allow you to do massive Jerry Donahue style bends. I sold mine, beginning to wish I'd kept it but I don't get many gigs in phone boxes :-) If I was looking for a travel bass it would be at the top of my list.[/quote]

is this the Tanglewood model? EB18

[url="http://www.tanglewoodguitars.co.uk/products/default.asp?cID=26463253&sID=26465218"]http://www.tanglewoodguitars.co.uk/product...mp;sID=26465218[/url]

they don't seem to have an EF18 on the website...

[OutToPlayJazz]

How about something headless like the little Zon bass, Status Streamline, or Steinberger/Hohner? I know Rob Green designed the Streamline to be stowable in aircraft overhead lockers.

[redstriper]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='367787' date='Jan 1 2009, 02:59 PM']is this the Tanglewood model? EB18

[url="http://www.tanglewoodguitars.co.uk/products/default.asp?cID=26463253&sID=26465218"]http://www.tanglewoodguitars.co.uk/product...mp;sID=26465218[/url]

they don't seem to have an EF18 on the website...[/quote]
I've seen 1/2 and 3/4 size Tanglewood EB18s advertised but it's not clear what the actual scale lengths are.

Are they standard short scale or ultra short - 20" sounds very short and I don't know where you'd get strings.

Has anyone else had any experience with them?

[paul h]

My GAS list always secretly includes a short scale, 3 string Les Paul influenced bass.

There, I've said it!



Paul.

[lozbass]

I'd be massively interested in trying one - I play short(er) scale almost exclusively. The proposed neck profile doesn't sound too attractive (I'm more accustomed to narrow spacing and slender necks): however, I'd be more than happy to give it a go - I don't find neck profile to be as much of an issue on short-scales as it is on long-scales.