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Down In The Sewer

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1 hour ago, mentalextra said:

But to be fair to Hugh, the stranglers songs often require that sort of 'angry shouty yob voice' (JJ was good at that), rather than pavarotti:D

Both Hugh & JJ were very capable of good, well-executed melodic vocals too, and were always completely appropriate for the material.

Both (to me, at least) massively preferable to overblown 17th century music-hall hollering, regardless of the level of classical training involved! :D

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29 minutes ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

Listen to Gates of Delirium...

Eek!

It's full of pomp and portent, and is about very little at all unless you're a big fan of Dungeons and Dragons, in which case it's deeeep, maan! 😜😀 And that's just the music. The singing, as I said earlier is like the mythical screaming baby-monster with bagpipes and metal gauntlet scraping down a 1000' blackboard for 21+ minutes! (*)

Still beauty is in the ear of the beholder; but while they can most certainly play I'd prefer them to play somewhere in the vicinity of the star Icarus.

 

* by way of balance, I quite like a bit of free jazz improv, so pinch of salt etc...

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On 19/07/2019 at 16:56, ZilchWoolham said:

Early Stranglers, to me, are just plain old rock, but it's very clear they rode the punk wave, and intentionally so. In fact, in their earlier incarnations a few years before their breakthrough they were decidedly more mellow. Strange Little Girl, for example, began as an early demo from this period. B&W would be easy to classify as post-punk, but so would an awful lot of albums from 1978 that don't necessarily sound like one another. Raven and Gospel are damn near art rock. Then, onward through the 80's they were more of a pop band than anything else, really. 

For whatever it's worth, Dagenham Dave's other favourite bands were Genesis and The Tubes! 

Pretty much this ^^^^^^^^.

From what I remember, from readings before the internet was born - the lads in black started out a pub rock band, living what would later be named the 'punk' lifestyle, in other words - mid 1970s dropouts.

Hugh and JJ had a squat or crappy flat that was near (or above) their local off license, that was managed by Jet (who was older, had drums and a van).

This B side says a lot about their early days. 👍

Hugh: 'Now you know why nobody came to see us two years ago' 😄

Edited by Ricky 4000
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13 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Hugh: 'Now you know why nobody came to see us two years ago' 😄

I did NOT say that! >:(

I would have said: 'Now you know why nobody came to see us ever!' :D

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5 minutes ago, Teebs said:

I did NOT say that! >:(

I would have said: 'Now you know why nobody came to see us ever!' :D

Oh yes, of course - there is more than one Hugh! 😀

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2 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Oh yes, of course - there is only one Hugh! 😀

...and it's ME!!! :D

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4 minutes ago, Teebs said:

...and it's ME!!! :D

I wonder if JJ is a member on here!? 😎

Not somebody random with the same initials, but the real JJ.

And I wonder who'd win a scrap between JJ and Jah Wobble?

I'd pay to see that.

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4 hours ago, Bassassin said:

Both Hugh & JJ were very capable of good, well-executed melodic vocals too, and were always completely appropriate for the material.

Both (to me, at least) massively preferable to overblown 17th century music-hall hollering, regardless of the level of classical training involved! :D

Oh, you won’t get an argument from me there. But personal taste and technical ability don’t necessarily go hand in hand.

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3 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Eek!

It's full of pomp and portent, and is about very little at all unless you're a big fan of Dungeons and Dragons, in which case it's deeeep, maan! 😜😀 And that's just the music. The singing, as I said earlier is like the mythical screaming baby-monster with bagpipes and metal gauntlet scraping down a 1000' blackboard for 21+ minutes! (*)

Still beauty is in the ear of the beholder; but while they can most certainly play I'd prefer them to play somewhere in the vicinity of the star Icarus.

 

* by way of balance, I quite like a bit of free jazz improv, so pinch of salt etc...

Or, it’s one of the greatest tracks of all time. 😉😁

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1 hour ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Pretty much this ^^^^^^^^.

From what I remember, from readings before the internet was born - the lads in black started out a pub rock band, living what would later be named the 'punk' lifestyle, in other words - mid 1970s dropouts.

Hugh and JJ had a squat or crappy flat that was near (or above) their local off license, that was managed by Jet (who was older, had drums and a van).

Hard to argue with that - they were definitely part of that contingent of the UK pub-rock scene that got swept along with the emerging punk movement along with the likes of Eddie & The Hot Rods, Ian Dury, Dr Feelgood etc. I think they were originally the Guildford Stranglers, & knocking around from about '73 or '74.

Songs like Princess Of The Streets & Go Buddy Go (I learned walking bass by playing along to that!) date back to their pre-Stranglers days.

 

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1 hour ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Pretty much this ^^^^^^^^.

From what I remember, from readings before the internet was born - the lads in black started out a pub rock band, living what would later be named the 'punk' lifestyle, in other words - mid 1970s dropouts.

Hugh and JJ had a squat or crappy flat that was near (or above) their local off license, that was managed by Jet (who was older, had drums and a van).

This B side says a lot about their early days. 👍

Hugh: 'Now you know why nobody came to see us two years ago' 😄

Best bass solo ever!

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20 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Eek!

It's full of pomp and portent, and is about very little at all unless you're a big fan of Dungeons and Dragons, in which case it's deeeep, maan! 😜😀 And that's just the music. The singing, as I said earlier is like the mythical screaming baby-monster with bagpipes and metal gauntlet scraping down a 1000' blackboard for 21+ minutes! (*)

Still beauty is in the ear of the beholder; but while they can most certainly play I'd prefer them to play somewhere in the vicinity of the star Icarus.

 

* by way of balance, I quite like a bit of free jazz improv, so pinch of salt etc...

Heard this for the first time on Planet Rock on the evening show where they play longer tracks. This went on for almost the entire show. On it went, on and on and on  and like a bad dose of dhobie's itch just when you think it's done and dusted it flares up all over again. 

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Whatever else you say about Yes, no one else has produced a catalogue like it. Gates is a massively original work. 

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2 hours ago, Barking Spiders said:

Heard this for the first time on Planet Rock on the evening show where they play longer tracks. This went on for almost the entire show. On it went, on and on and on  and like a bad dose of dhobie's itch just when you think it's done and dusted it flares up all over again. 

C’mon, you know this is really all about the capes. 😉😂

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4 hours ago, Bilbo said:

Whatever else you say about Yes, no one else has produced a catalogue like it. Gates is a massively original work. 

For me, Sound Chaser is the standout on Relayer.

I hate the cover  - horses and riders do NOT look like that when going down a steep gradient!

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20 minutes ago, spongebob said:

I love The Stranglers and Yes. 

Does this make me a bad person? 🙄

Yes.
Just like me.

Edited by BassTractor
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'Yes' must be extremely confusing to work with.

Here they are, backstage at a festival...

Stage Manager: OK, are you guys one of the bands?

Yes.

Alright, are you all here and ready to go on?

Yes.

What's the band called?

Yes.

Yes, I need to know who you are so I can put you on in the right spot.

Yes.

So what are you called?

Yes.

Grrr, if you don't tell me, I'll have to put you on last.

Yes.

Right, if you keep saying 'yes', that's what I'll write on the board, and you'll go last.

Yes.

OK?

Yes.

and the rest is history...

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1 hour ago, BassTractor said:

Yes.
Just like me.

And me. Capes, DMs, doesn’t bother me either way. 😉

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13 hours ago, 4000 said:

Capes, DMs, doesn’t bother me either way.

I've got no problem with capes either... I love Parliament!

And I've also got no problem with prog - at least in theory. I'm a big fan of Magma, King Crimson and even like ELP's "Pictures at an Exhibition". I can even cope with Gentle Giant despite their medieval bent! As for more modern prog, I'm very happy to listen to Porcupine Tree, Physics House Band, Sky Architect, Liquid Tension Experiment, Mars Volta etc.

But I don't like Yes (or Genesis for that matter, but that's a different story); it could be the annoying folky chord progressions, the complete and utter lack of The Funk in any shape or form, the constant stopping and starting in order to fit in yet another fanfare, the fantasy album covers, the screeching vocals or the terrible lyrics. Either way, they're musical hell for me, or perhaps one of the outer circles; the centre is occupied by boy/girl bands and "I sawe a prettye Maide" type folk...

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4 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I've got no problem with capes either... I love Parliament!

And I've also got no problem with prog - at least in theory. I'm a big fan of Magma, King Crimson and even like ELP's "Pictures at an Exhibition". I can even cope with Gentle Giant despite their medieval bent! As for more modern prog, I'm very happy to listen to Porcupine Tree, Physics House Band, Sky Architect, Liquid Tension Experiment, Mars Volta etc.

But I don't like Yes (or Genesis for that matter, but that's a different story); it could be the annoying folky chord progressions, the complete and utter lack of The Funk in any shape or form, the constant stopping and starting in order to fit in yet another fanfare, the fantasy album covers, the screeching vocals or the terrible lyrics. Either way, they're musical hell for me, or perhaps one of the outer circles; the centre is occupied by boy/girl bands and "I sawe a prettye Maide" type folk...

Ah well, just goes to show, as I am not that much of an ELP, Crimson, or Gentle Giant fan, but love Yes and Genesis. 

Have to say criticising either for not having The Funk is a bit like criticising Motorhead for not being Chic. But then pretty much everything you hate about Yes I like. Don’t really get the “folky chord progressions” thing either, but seeing as probably my all-time favourite female singer is Sandy Denny and Martin Simpson is one of my favourite guitarists I suspect our ideas about “folky chord progressions” may be a little different. 

To be honest, I don’t really hate any music. There’s some I don’t really listen to (reggae, a lot of R&B/soul, blues etc), but nothing I really hate. Except for Simply Red of course, but Mick Hucknall is a given. 😂

EDIT

Have just  given PHB and SA a listen (I’ve heard all the others and seen Porcupine Tree live) and they’re not my bag. Too rocky for my taste in prog (as are PT) and a bit too miserable-sounding. What I like about Yes and Genesis is they can be really uplifting. I don’t hear that in any of the others, only the sound of depression (which is something I’m all too familiar with). Of course your mileage obviously varies. 

Edited by 4000
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I'm with you on a lot of these points, 4000. Not really sure how a Stranglers thread became a discussion about the various forms of prog, but I have to jump in as well! 

I definitely don't hear much of folk in Yes either, but then British folk does happen to be the genre (or tradition, rather) of music I enjoy the most as a whole, so my perception, and definition of folk might be a bit different, more narrow, from others (as an example, my favourite band is Jethro Tull, and while many have applied the label "folk rock" to much of their output, I'd say it's folk-inspired at most - and even then certainly more Celtic than English, and much more apparent in music than in lyrics). I also think medieval bent, as in the case of Gentle Giant, really is something of a compliment rather than something to look past! I do appreciate a good groove but I tend to stay far, far away from one-note funk.

I've also had trouble connecting with modern prog bands. Too much of it sounds the same to me; it's often to metal-oriented, and almost always strangely dour, dreary and humourless. I can enjoy a bit of darkness, and certainly some heaviness now and then, but I think prog is best when it's energetic, adventurous and exuberant. I don't have much of a taste for fantasy themes myself, but I do prefer it to brooding self-importance.

As an almost-aside, Robert Fripp is very near the top of my list of most pretentious musicians, along with his chum Eno and the No Wave crowd. 

How do we all feel about Captain Beefheart? In my experience he seems to be one of the biggest unifiers in music. Probably the artist who most attracts punk and prog fans alike. I'm not a regular listener but I do happen to like him, myself, and the attitude is brilliant. 

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10 minutes ago, ZilchWoolham said:

 

I've also had trouble connecting with modern prog bands. Too much of it sounds the same to me; it's often to metal-oriented, and almost always strangely dour, dreary and humourless. I can enjoy a bit of darkness, and certainly some heaviness now and then, but I think prog is best when it's energetic, adventurous and exuberant. I don't have much of a taste for fantasy themes myself, but I do prefer it to brooding self-importance.

This.

Have to say that thinking about it I’m not really sure where the “fantasy” thing comes from re Yes. Jon has openly admitted he uses words for their sound in context rather than their meaning, and in Yes themselves I can’t think of many songs that relate to fantasy. New Age hippyness, ok. 😉. I mean, The Gates of Delirium is supposedly based on Tolstoy!

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I always think bands I've never listened to are a bit similar to foods I've never tried, but I know I don't like.

When I have finally tried them, I was right all along.

Example: Beetroot. 🤢

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