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Ruck

Soundmen rant...

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25 minutes ago, Roger2611 said:

Part of the problem seems to be the quickness of a soundcheck, if you are lucky enough to get one, as a support act it's usually "bass" I hit two notes "thank you, Guitar" and that's my soundcheck!

Headlining a NYE gig at the major venue of my hometown. They had 3 hours to get it right :)

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3 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

I'll always have the soundman listen to my on stage sound first then tell him to bring up the FOH bass sound and i'll listen to see if he matches the sound i'll be hearing. Most good sound guys can do that quite easily and i always give them post EQ too.

You should be able to tell even from the stage if the FOH sound is near what you expect. If its sub bassy then i would expect to have heard that at sound check and would say something. Maybe you didn't have the luxury of a sound check and i don't know your gig circumstances so difficult to know who is 100% to blame.

Shame your childhod dream gig is ruined by FOH sound. I'd be furious.

Dave

I just trust in the soundman too much.

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3 hours ago, E sharp said:

I took my daughter to her first proper gig last year - her choice was Download .

I would say around 80% of the bands had a shockingly bad sound - I've no idea what these guys do

In fairness, mixing at a festival and outside isn't the easiest job in the world

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Posted (edited)

Decent venue with a decent PA, this shouldn’t happen. Especially if the guy is an experienced sound engineer. If there are restrictions, they should have been explained, or preferably resolved before hand. It’s not an easy job, but if you don’t want it, then don’t do it, or you’ll get labelled as a bad engineer. 

Edited by Angelus

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1 hour ago, Roger2611 said:

Part of the problem seems to be the quickness of a soundcheck, if you are lucky enough to get one, as a support act it's usually "bass" I hit two notes "thank you, Guitar" and that's my soundcheck!

This is about right though, because, unless I hear something that obviously and immediately requires some remedial tweaking, I want to quickly flash through all inputs to make sure I've got a good clean signal I can work with, then hear things in context with the band playing together before I make any serious sonic decisions and start to tweak. No use me arsing about with things in isolation if it isn't going to sit in the mix right when the rest of the band start.

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1 minute ago, mike257 said:

This is about right though, because, unless I hear something that obviously and immediately requires some remedial tweaking, I want to quickly flash through all inputs to make sure I've got a good clean signal I can work with, then hear things in context with the band playing together before I make any serious sonic decisions and start to tweak. No use me arsing about with things in isolation if it isn't going to sit in the mix right when the rest of the band start.

dont blame the sound guy

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I'd just wish they'd say something like "Hey man is your sound suppose to be a undefined drone of sub bass?" 

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2 minutes ago, rollie 55 said:

dont blame the sound guy

I think he is remarking on his own experience as a sound guy

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4 minutes ago, mike257 said:

This is about right though, because, unless I hear something that obviously and immediately requires some remedial tweaking, I want to quickly flash through all inputs to make sure I've got a good clean signal I can work with, then hear things in context with the band playing together before I make any serious sonic decisions and start to tweak. No use me arsing about with things in isolation if it isn't going to sit in the mix right when the rest of the band start.

some you win some you loose hey ho

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8 minutes ago, rollie 55 said:

some you win some you loose hey ho

?

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10 minutes ago, Ruck said:

I think he is remarking on his own experience as a sound guy

a bad workman allways blames his tools

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1 hour ago, Ruck said:

I just trust in the soundman too much.

Think most are usually ok to excellent but its always best to check. I've been doing it since i used to hire out PA's systems in 80's. Just habit from mixing our own band sounds all those years ago and i still do it without thinking.

Dave

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33 minutes ago, Ruck said:

I'd just wish they'd say something like "Hey man is your sound suppose to be a undefined drone of sub bass?" 

Thing is, as they insisted on pre-eq it was their job to then eq it to fit in the mix properly. 

This always amazes me, bands - usually - work as a collective to get their overall sound, then someone on a desk with no knowledge of that sound decides to maintain the sound of all the instruments apart from one - and more often than not it’s the bass. And more often than not what they do to the bass ends up in a sludgy booming subby mess. 

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6 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

They get what they're given from me, which is always Post.

 

When there's PA to take care of the bass, my amplifier becomes my monitor really. As such, I want to be able to tweak EQ to help me onstage without worrying that I'm damaging the mix FOH. 

For that reason, I always give them PRE. I like the flexibility I get that way onstage, and the sound engineer already gets *my* sound, since I tend to get the sound I want between the bass and any pedals I may be using, I do not rely on the amp for that.

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I saw Little Feat at the Shepherds Bush Empire and when they started they sounded perfect, just like the records. I was standing by the desk and as the set progressed the sound got worse and worse. I watched their sound guy turning every knob on the desk for the whole gig! It sounded so bad! How could someone like that get it so wrong!

The acoustic duo I was in did support for Paul Jones in a big echoing church, and his sound man got us the best sound I've heard in years. On the sound check, he could spot and name the frequency that was causing trouble, then EQ it perfectly. He was worth double what they were paying him!

Sadly, most of my FOH experience is in the past, but I have always found the sound guy, introduced myself, shaken his hand and, assuming he's got the time, had a chat. After, thank him and shake hands again.

I always tell them they're getting post EQ from my amp. Never had a fight about that.

I have only had 1 bad sound on a gig (at a festival, a huge boom on most of the notes) and for some reason it took the guy 20 mins to fix it. I didn't thank him after that! Otherwise I've been pretty lucky, because no-one's given me a sound I could complain about.

 

 

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I’m another who likes to go & have a friendly chat with the soundy. Not just for the gig, but to expand my contacts, as you never know when they might be putting something on in the future, etc. 

I’ve had it good so far, as every sound guy has said they love my tone & hardly touch the EQ, just pop some compression on it. 

I feel for Ruck having the soundy make a mess. Maybe he’s a dub reggae soundy?

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1 hour ago, rollie 55 said:

dont blame the sound guy

I wasn't blaming the sound guy. I am the sound guy!

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25 minutes ago, mike257 said:

I wasn't blaming the sound guy. I am the sound guy!

 

No. I am the sound guy!

And so is my wife!

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the main trouble I encounter with FOH sound is a muddy sub bass so I always cut anything below 50Hz before the signal gets sent to the desk.

 

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1 hour ago, PaulWarning said:

the main trouble I encounter with FOH sound is a muddy sub bass so I always cut anything below 50Hz before the signal gets sent to the desk.

 

Indeed! I usually have this on my GK 1001RB but unfortunately was Pre-EQ DI. I run the Flea EQ: Lows: 8 o'clock Low Mids: 9 o'clock High Mids: 11 o'clock and Highs at Noon. Pre-Shape and Presence 10 o'clock though. This with my Fender Precision Deluxe and Barefaced Big Twin II is the tightest punchiest lows Ive ever managed. Even got an Auralex pad to stop the booming on hollow stages, seems to work a treat.

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8 hours ago, Ruck said:

Indeed! I usually have this on my GK 1001RB but unfortunately was Pre-EQ DI. I run the Flea EQ: Lows: 8 o'clock Low Mids: 9 o'clock High Mids: 11 o'clock and Highs at Noon. Pre-Shape and Presence 10 o'clock though. This with my Fender Precision Deluxe and Barefaced Big Twin II is the tightest punchiest lows Ive ever managed. Even got an Auralex pad to stop the booming on hollow stages, seems to work a treat.

I tend to run my GK1001RBii almost flat thru a Berg HT322 with contour 9 o clock and presence off. I've never had any probs with heavy lows altho i tend to use a Jazz.

Dave

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two recent experiences from depping before Christmas, playing reasonable sized venues.  We took our own sound people - one to each gig - the band do it as standard, and use people who know how the band, and the extreme metal genre, should sound.

At the first the in-house guy did all the other bands and they all sounded excellent, all the more impressive because it was largely line checks before they went on.  I'm told that we sounded great, and the guy we took is a bass player in another band (and guitarist in others) and really knew his stuff.

At the second the sound guy that we brought did the support bands, so only the co-headliners had the in-house person.  Even they commented that they had the worst sound of the evening.  Have to say, I didn't spot them sounding bad, just maybe not as good/clear as everybody else.

I do have some sympathy in that the sound-person does have to cope with a huge amount of different genres, and what's right for one may be completely wrong for one that is even slightly different (for example, we were a progressive death metal band, the co-headliners were straight forward thrash metal).  I've done plenty of gigs leaving it all to the soundman and had reports of it not sounding great.  However, my trick is to get all of the eq in first, and I specifically use a Tech 21 VT Bass and an Ampeg SCR-DI which between them do a pretty good impression of the SVT sound that I would only otherwise get if I've brought my SVT and the amp is mic'd (and that never happens).

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Posted (edited)

Sound guys almost always ask for pre-EQ. I always say "Sure..." and then send them a post- EQ signal.

They then often remark on what a great bass tone I have sent to their desk...... and how little they need to do to adjust for the room. Quel surprise!

Edited by cetera
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42 minutes ago, cetera said:

Sound guys almost always ask for pre-EQ. I always say "Sure..." and then send them a post- EQ signal.

They then often remark on what a great bass tone I have sent to their desk...... and how little they need to do to adjust for the room. Quel surprise!

Much sneakiness :laugh1:

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We played a gig in a tent last year... we provided the PA and the boyfriend of one of our vocalists did the knob-twiddling duties, first time he'd done it for us. He's a recent sound engineering/production graduate. I took a walk out front during the set, and oh my word the FOH sound was sublime. We're a 12-piece band, lots of horns and stuff, so mixing us is not a small task, but I could hear everything clearly and in lovely detail and my tone was perfect. I could have kissed him. I'm really hoping he comes along as our engineer in future.

 

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