Half fretted, half fretless

[Sambrook]

Been mulling over an idea:

Six string bass, 2 octave board, fretted up to the 5th fret, fretless until the 17th/18th position, then fretted again. 

That way, the first 5 frets give you the root note, fundamental type anchor notes, the top end allows for chords and melody, and the fretless part has almost the full range of a 4 string. 

Don't know if it's actually possible to do this (if I've thought of it, and nobody's done it, that suggests it's not doable), but it's been a very pleasant daydream. 

What does the collective wisdom of the Basschat hive mind have to say? 

[dmccombe7]

You would lose the fretless in the middle as you near the frets at the body end. 

The 17th or 18th fret would be the problem as it will act on the fretless part if that makes sense.

Could you drop the fretboard height from the 17th or 18th fret so that fret from there are same height as the fretless part of the neck ? Just a thought ?

There are basses out there with fretted up to maybe the 12th fret and fretless from there on but haven't seen many about recently.

Dave

Edited August 9, 2018 by dmccombe7

[ambient]

What's the Ibanez one?

[BassApprentice]

Something like this?

[fleabag]

The photo above is similar to how Brand X  god  Percy Jones started with fretless. I believe he had an old ( Gretsch ? ) and ripped out the frets from under the G string only.

He can be heard on 1 or 2 tracks i believe, on the earliest album.  The track Running On Three springs to mind

[Hellzero]

Listen to these, it's a Leduc U-Basse 6 strings with the B, E and A strings being fretless and the D, G and C being fretted. Put some headphones !

 

 

 

 

[TheGreek]

I believe that there are a few Wals about with the higher strings being fretless....

Last one I saw for sale the seller was extracting urine in large amounts.

[Happy Jack]

In my head, the lower (bass) strings should be fretted and the higher (treble) strings should be the fretless ones ...

[ambient]

21 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

In my head, the lower (bass) strings should be fretted and the higher (treble) strings should be the fretless ones ...

That’s my opinion too, the Ibanez has never made sense to me for that reason.

[fleabag]

Quite right

[Dood]

...

Edited August 9, 2018 by dood

[Dood]

27 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

In my head, the lower (bass) strings should be fretted and the higher (treble) strings should be the fretless ones ...

 

4 minutes ago, ambient said:

That’s my opinion too, the Ibanez has never made sense to me for that reason.

The original first Ashula from Ibanez did indeed have the top two strings fretless and the bottom strings fretted!

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by dood

[ambient]

Just now, dood said:

 

The original first Ashula from Ibanez did indeed have the top two strings fretless and the bottom strings fretted!

 

 

Why only top two though I wonder? I’d prefer half and half I think.

[Dood]

10 minutes ago, ambient said:

Why only top two though I wonder? I’d prefer half and half I think.

For the average bassist it already has two too many strings.. ha ha ha!!

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, dood said:

 

The original first Ashula from Ibanez did indeed have the top two strings fretless and the bottom strings fretted!

 

 

That's the one i remember looking at before i went full Overwater fretless.

Dave

[Hellzero]

The Ibanez Ashula's are pure marketing object as they are a regular 4 strings fretted bass tuned from E to G coupled to a 2 (regular D and G) or 3 strings fretless bass tuned from A to G, so redudant and useless. Gilles Coquard needed a fretted high register because he plays lots of chords, hence the low end fretless.

I tried a half fretless 5 strings Leduc a few weeks ago and didn't like the approach as the high register doesn't sing as much as the low one on a fretless.

[deepbass5]

The above picture of the higher register notes fretless has been done successfully on other basses, but what you original suggestion of returning to frets higher up would just choke on the frets above the action would be very awkward, I have often considered a custom bass with just frets to 5th or 6th similar to above but wonder if it would be best to just get a fretless and done with it. There are bound to be others on here who have part de -fretted.

[EMG456]

Never seen it but it could surely be done. Since you'd be spending a bit of money, to do it properly so the bass played well and consistently, the action would need to be the same over the transitions from fretted to fretless. so the fingerboard would have to be higher by almost the height of the chosen fretwire at the fretless section and lower at the two fretted areas. would pose an interesting luthiery challenge I suppose...

I'd love to see and try it if you ever go ahead but on a practical note, anytime I've modded an instrument to fulfil some odd esoteric notion I had, it has always proved to be not as useful in the real world as I had imagined and ends up being sold off at a large financial loss. YMMV!

[Sambrook]

7 hours ago, EMG456 said:

Never seen it but it could surely be done. Since you'd be spending a bit of money, to do it properly so the bass played well and consistently, the action would need to be the same over the transitions from fretted to fretless. so the fingerboard would have to be higher by almost the height of the chosen fretwire at the fretless section and lower at the two fretted areas. would pose an interesting luthiery challenge I suppose...

I'd love to see and try it if you ever go ahead but on a practical note, anytime I've modded an instrument to fulfil some odd esoteric notion I had, it has always proved to be not as useful in the real world as I had imagined and ends up being sold off at a large financial loss. YMMV!

Unfortunately, you're bang on there. 

The Leduc with the lower half fretted looks good, though but

[Shaggy]

23 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

In my head, the lower (bass) strings should be fretted and the higher (treble) strings should be the fretless ones ...

Yup, Kramer were doing this a while ago........ https://reverb.com/uk/item/3560547-kramer-dmz-4000-bass-guitar-metal-neck-half-fretted-half-fretless-from-1979-added-photos

edit: oops sorry Happy Jack, mis-read strings as frets.......

Edited August 10, 2018 by Shaggy

[fleabag]

Jones with a small mention of the Gretsch he filed the frets down on

https://www.bassplayer.com/artists/percy-jones-on-the-return-of-brand-x

[Roadybus]

good day UK

 

did you hold on to that thoughts? 

well, i'm on it agin & again. 

actually exact the same idea of a 5er (6 would be too wide for me personally)  fretted up to 5th, to have a 'regular bass' to fall back on and a full tonal option of a 4er fretless to sing along. 

 

i wonder if you gentlemen could give me some more advice and help? 

 

ONE bass to do it all ! 

thats a vision worth to follow, isn' it?

[itu]

I think Ibanez MC-924 (AJ) made for Alphonso Johnson was one of the first ones with a vertically half fretted neck. Ashula is a horizontally half fretted. 

 

I had a white Ashula, but as I converted it to a 5 string, my bandmates were asking why the sound was changing within a song. I converted it back to a six and sold it. 

 

I think the idea is nice but there are obvious problems. If the song requires quite a big area from the fretboard, the sound changes can be bad for the music (record something and listen to the result). Sound is dependent on the electronics, too. That's why the change between the fretted and fretless notes can be substantial: one adjustment may not be ideal for both worlds. Fretless board after frets in a vertically divided board requires neat work from the luthier. When the fretboard ages, it may be complicated to level everything to original specs. 

 

I am not quite sure if a two neck monster would still be a better option if the instrument was light (like Basslab?).

 

Putting both instruments to one single neck is an interesting idea, but I couldn't live with it - I am too old to learn new, or even old tricks. And no, I am not a very good player. My thinking of the instrument is maybe ancient and slow: from 4 to 5, from fretted to fretless, all changes require changing my attitude to the song and playing.

Edited 6 hours ago by itu

[Roadybus]

to be honest...'working' bass doesnt need extended tonal range in...hm... let's say 9 out of 10 songs 😉 

and they are all there in the 25 fretted notes...

well, yes, that was bit polemic and of course you are right.

depends all on style and attitude. 

kind of learning to handle a newish instrument at least.

i am simply in the comfortable position to play my way, no covers, no 'must-have sounds' et cetera and always looking for 'more'. a three piece band can do what most do with 5 members (or even more) if the band looses the chains they gave their bassist...

 

don't get me wrong, please! absolutely no offense! if you feel so it's all about my poor english and i'm sorry. 

 

to explain myself:  in the swiss/german bassic-community sb wrote once ' nonsense, what should that be good for at all?' 

well:

more options, more music, more freedom, 

i guess. to experience that the world is not a disc, maybe it's round !?

 

and i love the idea of ONE bass for all

(and my bank account does too) 

 

[EMG456]

Except that the amount of money you would have to spend to create such a beast would likely easily buy you two or three good standard basses. 
Also, it’s almost inevitable with this sort of highly specialised instrument that you are pretty soon going to be wishing that one or other of the transition points was in a different place to suit different pieces of music. 
 

double neck sounds more practical to me- especially if it was small bodied headless- or Ashula style 8 string with 4 fretted, 4 fretless.