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Interesting FRFR story..

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As an aside has anybody tried the Valeton Dapper into a standalone monitor? I'm planning on just using my Fishman Platinum Pro EQ which has everything I need and nothing I don't (I sometimes think Fishman designed it specifically for me!) but the Valeton looks like a cheap compact backup option.

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On 2/6/2018 at 13:25, EBS_freak said:

So who is killing rock and roll today then?

I'm going to be giving it a hoof square in the sack with this from now on.

Two crappy solid-state Sansamps, which merely simulate valves and speakers, and can be set (God forbid!) to be completely clean and flat if needed, too.

1500 watts from the power amp, but we're talking wussy, lightweight, efficient, and low temperature class D watts. The amp is also spoiled with DSP control over the channel configuration.

I might get away with all that if I wasn't pushing it through a flimsy cab with high excursion drivers, a great big HF horn with the ability to send all the signal to the woofers if desired, and which doesn't burst testes upon lifting.

Here's to tonight's Psychedelic Blues-Rock gig being another nail in the coffin... 

5a7ddb3bc8d6a_IMG_20180209_1446261.thumb.jpg.ab2dac408ee4cab100a20f11f181fc3a.jpg

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So the QSC K10.2 has arrived. Got it home and plugged the bass in via the FIshman Pro Platinum and the result was, well.... a bit wet. No low end at all and no amount of adjustment on the Fishman or the Sire eq could dial any in, set it to bass amp mode and the best I could get was a mid range honky bass sound - not good. Also the volume seemed way down from what I was expecting and was far less than my Markbass rig, tried it my Behringer BDDI and the result was the same, could get a little more volume by cranking the level but it was still in the realm of a budget practice amp. I was starting to think you lot gig exclusively in libraries and went to pick my daughter up from school a bit gutted that I'd blown £600 on a posh vocal monitor.

Then I went into the settings and saw it had the crossover set to 125hz so everything below that was missing, it must have been reset to factory settings. Turned this off and it sounds absolutely fantastic, no shortage of low end at all and the volume is way more than I need. Amazing to hear such a big sound from a little 10" wedge like that, combined with the Fishman it sounds fat and very smooth so I now have a big smile on my face.

 

So if you get the QSC remember to not be an idiot and check the crossover settings!

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6 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

So the QSC K10.2 has arrived. Got it home and plugged the bass in via the FIshman Pro Platinum and the result was, well.... a bit wet. No low end at all and no amount of adjustment on the Fishman or the Sire eq could dial any in, set it to bass amp mode and the best I could get was a mid range honky bass sound - not good. Also the volume seemed way down from what I was expecting and was far less than my Markbass rig, tried it my Behringer BDDI and the result was the same, could get a little more volume by cranking the level but it was still in the realm of a budget practice amp. I was starting to think you lot gig exclusively in libraries and went to pick my daughter up from school a bit gutted that I'd blown £600 on a posh vocal monitor.

It was shortly after this point that the Gods of Rock smiles were wiped from their faces.

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I can tell you my dreams of killing rock'n'roll were lying in the gutter until I found that crossover setting.

My load in is now a bass gigbag and the QSC, one trip with a free hand to make rude gestures at the keyboard player :biggrin:

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Yeah, that crossover is for if you’ve got a Sub linked up. I’m yet to try the 4 band on board EQ for further tweaking, variable Q, loads of settings!

I was surprised when I started reading your post as my 12.2 has LOADS of bass and ‘heft’. 😶 Glad you got the settings sorted out. 😊🤘

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9 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

I can tell you my dreams of killing rock'n'roll were lying in the gutter until I found that crossover setting.

My load in is now a bass gigbag and the QSC, one trip with a free hand to make rude gestures at the keyboard player :biggrin:

Good stuff - I really like the QSCs. Really attractive looking cabs too. 

Remember it's still a single 10 though! You aren't going to be blowing walls down just yet... however, I'm very interested to see how you get on with a single 10 FRFR for bass!

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16 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Good stuff - I really like the QSCs. Really attractive looking cabs too. 

Remember it's still a single 10 though! You aren't going to be blowing walls down just yet... however, I'm very interested to see how you get on with a single 10 FRFR for bass!

We have a quiet on stage sound, the drummer is a former pro who plays at a nice volume and the guitarist does our sound most of the time so there's no cranked "I need volume to get my tone" valve amps in there either.

If I needed anything more then I would have gone for the RCF like CameronJ has. Our PA cabs are a pair of RCF 735s and they kick bass out for fun on their own, we went a year before buying matching subs. The small size and versatility of the QSC won out in the end as well as a mint used one popping up at the right time. 

Edited by lemmywinks
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3 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

I'm going to be giving it a hoof square in the sack with this from now on.

Two crappy solid-state Sansamps, which merely simulate valves and speakers, and can be set (God forbid!) to be completely clean and flat if needed, too.

1500 watts from the power amp, but we're talking wussy, lightweight, efficient, and low temperature class D watts. The amp is also spoiled with DSP control over the channel configuration.

I might get away with all that if I wasn't pushing it through a flimsy cab with high excursion drivers, a great big HF horn with the ability to send all the signal to the woofers if desired, and which doesn't burst testes upon lifting.

Here's to tonight's Psychedelic Blues-Rock gig being another nail in the coffin... 

5a7ddb3bc8d6a_IMG_20180209_1446261.thumb.jpg.ab2dac408ee4cab100a20f11f181fc3a.jpg

I’ve got almost the exact same setup with the exception of an RBI / RPM and it sounds great...it stays at home now

My helix through the PA (with a DBR15 monitor for the less enlightened members of the band) and IEMs make me and the band sound better overall and I don’t miss the on-stage volume one bit.  Rock ‘n’ roll eh !

Edited by intime-nick

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10 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

BRX not doing things by halves!

The RCF 745 and the Line6 Helix (along with my Linn Adrenalinn) should cover all my bass and guitar tone-shaping and amplification needs and at worst when I sell my old bass and guitar rigs I'll make all the money I've just spent back.

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I've been very pleased with my 745s. I think you'll be impressed. Report back soon!

Edited by EBS_freak

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I have to say the 745 would be my port of call too. With me playing keys a fair bit it just makes sense

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On 21/01/2018 at 11:17, dood said:

This whole thread reads like something I was asking for 20 years ago and we still haven't really got there! The phrase FRFR hadn't made it into everyday use, but still, I had been banging on about a Bass capable combo that acted like a PA with DSP to control its performance.  My gigging gear at the time had to be all manner of rack compressors and EQ's in an attempt to create what we are essentially talking about on this thread. Still, we're moving forward and the RCF's and the QSC's of the world are making our life much easier.

Interestingly though, last night I took out my Helix and my set of IEMs only. That also works well.

Sort of arrived at the halfway house to this by accident.  Took the Fearful 15/6/1 concept to Shermann Audio (PA builders) and had them build a FRFR 15/6/1 lightweight bass cab. It is about the size of a Peavey TNT bass combo.   It also makes a good PA cab whilst retaining the 'traditional' cab appearance.  Without going to IEMs the biggest issue I find at present is drum volume, and that is with a sensible drummer.  I am gradually persuading the band that quieter on stage is better.

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I cant imagine how good the 745s are.

We have the 732s and they are ridiculous.Every instrument comes through our PA (only a little bit of bass), and they all are crystal clear, and loud as hell when needed, with the vocals sitting nicely above them. 
I cant think of any one thing that has made more of a difference to us as a band.

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8 minutes ago, FuNkShUi said:

I cant imagine how good the 745s are.

We have the 732s and they are ridiculous.Every instrument comes through our PA (only a little bit of bass), and they all are crystal clear, and loud as hell when needed, with the vocals sitting nicely above them. 
I cant think of any one thing that has made more of a difference to us as a band.

Told ya! That HF horn makes ALL the difference for vocals.

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Yup. It really does. 
Our vocalist is really strong. Being able to hear her so clearly, rather than fighting to hear her has been a revelation. Who'd have thunk it??:crazy:

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For a lot of vocalists I've worked with taking away the PA would be more of an improvement :P

 

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18 hours ago, BigRedX said:

The RCF 745 and the Line6 Helix (along with my Linn Adrenalinn) should cover all my bass and guitar tone-shaping and amplification needs and at worst when I sell my old bass and guitar rigs I'll make all the money I've just spent back.

When's the RCF landing?

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3 hours ago, FuNkShUi said:

I cant imagine how good the 745s are.

We have the 732s and they are ridiculous.Every instrument comes through our PA (only a little bit of bass), and they all are crystal clear, and loud as hell when needed, with the vocals sitting nicely above them. 
I cant think of any one thing that has made more of a difference to us as a band.

Same here but with the 735s, the guitar out front sounds exactly as it does coming out of the guitar amp but louder and at head height which actually means lower stage volume and a clearer mix out front, the vocals just pop out on top of everything and sound fantastic, the xair mixer does a great vocal preamp mix paired with the RCF cabs. As I own the PA technically I will never need my big amp again for a big gig with pro PA support, I could take both 735s and a di box! :D

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