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Interesting FRFR story..

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5 minutes ago, Kevin Dean said:

The heaviest bass cab I have is 37lbs  , I just can't get the sound I like just going DI into my 2.6k pa , without my cabs behind me ..I have done with much bigger PAs & much bigger monitors .

You can't get your sound - or you can't get your volume?

It reads like you like to get blasted on stage.

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This whole thread reads like something I was asking for 20 years ago and we still haven't really got there! The phrase FRFR hadn't made it into everyday use, but still, I had been banging on about a Bass capable combo that acted like a PA with DSP to control its performance.  My gigging gear at the time had to be all manner of rack compressors and EQ's in an attempt to create what we are essentially talking about on this thread. Still, we're moving forward and the RCF's and the QSC's of the world are making our life much easier.

Interestingly though, last night I took out my Helix and my set of IEMs only. That also works well.

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14 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

You can't get your sound - or you can't get your volume?

It reads like you like to get blasted on stage.

volume wise I try to be at the same volume of the acoustic bass drum & that's it ...It's the punch , amount of depth & feeling the low end I like plus I like looking at a rig , also Some of these monitors for large PAs weigh more than my cabs ....quite a lot of experienced named bands will use , in ear , monitor & back line ..but they have road crew .

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1 hour ago, Kevin Dean said:

volume wise I try to be at the same volume of the acoustic bass drum & that's it ...It's the punch , amount of depth & feeling the low end I like plus I like looking at a rig , also Some of these monitors for large PAs weigh more than my cabs ....quite a lot of experienced named bands will use , in ear , monitor & back line ..but they have road crew .

What monitors were you using? 

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1 minute ago, jay-syncro said:

So how’s everyone getting on with their FRFR setups for gigs? 

It seems like an interesting solution.. 

 

I'd be interested to hear about what models weren't performing as expected and hopefully an idea as to who is making the best of the bunch in terms of a workable solution that can deliver real bass. The discussions so far seem to centre around floor monitors made of ABS plastic with either a 12" or 15" driver and some form of DSP on board. Some possibly suggesting massaged output figures?  Given how much we spend on basses and backline (heads and cabinets as a combined investment) what's the next step up? 

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1 hour ago, dood said:

I'd be interested to hear about what models weren't performing as expected and hopefully an idea as to who is making the best of the bunch in terms of a workable solution that can deliver real bass. The discussions so far seem to centre around floor monitors made of ABS plastic with either a 12" or 15" driver and some form of DSP on board. Some possibly suggesting massaged output figures?  Given how much we spend on basses and backline (heads and cabinets as a combined investment) what's the next step up? 

I don't know if I'd agree that they are floor monitors - most are FoH speakers placed on their sides. The ABS plastic is primarily for weight reduction. If you want to move up, move into ply cabs which theoretically has less flex. But that introduces the weight.

e.g. 745 vs it's wooden equivalent (NX45A) adds circa 5kg. The thing is, as you get into more and more serious PA, weight seems to be less of a concern. There's some mighty fine cabs out there, but they come without outrageous weights. Take a look at the L'Acoustic 112P for example. Powered Single 12 with compression driver (3"VC), 32kg (about the weight of a Fender twin!). Before long, you are getting into 40kg+ cabs. How far do you want to go? - remember, your FoH is more important, so it would be more wise to invest in that.

Lets not forget, Anthony Jackson was doing this with Meyer long before most... and Mike Gordon for that matter. I think they clocked that PA cabs generally far out perform the bass cabs that are commonly sold. Mind you, lets not neglect to mention that Meyer tends to come with a sizeable price tag. Luckily these guys would appear to have a road crew (with fork lifts?! :P) to move their gear.

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On 1/21/2018 at 11:31, Kevin Dean said:

volume wise I try to be at the same volume of the acoustic bass drum & that's it ...It's the punch , amount of depth & feeling the low end I like plus I like looking at a rig , also Some of these monitors for large PAs weigh more than my cabs ....quite a lot of experienced named bands will use , in ear , monitor & back line ..but they have road crew .

Looking at a rig - there's the main reason - and it's a valid one. People want the traditional look.

re: punch - is more than just a choice of speakers - its also down to the processing and EQ. Lack of depth - that down to the tuning of the cab also. DSP on most modern cabs has been put in to iron out the lumps and bumps. If you like the low end, EQ it in. Most bass cabs have been tuned to colour the sound so it has low end and mid range humps and bumps.

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This thread has got me rethinking my rig! 

It's interesting that you've got the PA speakers discussed here (RCF 15 inch one) or I guess the powered barefaced FR800, prob not as good as a PA speaker but as good in bass - or I guess Bergantino IP or bAmp thing do speaker DSP controlling too. 

At the moment most my gigs are in ears with no backline - so a pedal board would do me (currently just DI in) and then something for when you need a rig... actually pedal board, in ears and some cheap cheap combo for the odd occasion/practice at home and old be set...

few options there - in reality I prob am too busy/lazy to get around to selling the amp!

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Just to drop in on this one. We had a gig in a very small pub a couple of weeks ago. I realised my Genz Neox 212T was going to take too much space - at the venue as well as in the cae (I was taking PA and drum kit as well).

So I just took my TC RH450 and DI'd into the PA (3 x RCF 310A as monitors, 2 X Yamaha DXR10s as mains).

It worked fine!

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I've popped my 8-week old QSC K10.2 up for sale in the amp section. Was a revelation with my Kemper and the various pre's I've collected over the years, but alas my situation and priorities have radically changed! Oh well.

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The QSC 10.2 for smaller stuff but augmented by a K sub for more grunt would be a rig to behold. 

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On 2/7/2018 at 17:13, EBS_freak said:

Subwoofers for bass guitar use on stage wouldn't leave you much clarity...

I agree with EBS_freak - subwoofers on stage are a daft idea. 

One of the best sound I have had was a practice at some church where I plugged straight into a HK DART activewedge - a DSP controlled speaker with multi band compression. Back then I asked about it on here and it was pointed out that there was a lack of bottom end. I looked at what else was out there and at the time there wasn't a bigger alternative that would have a bit more bass in a way that would be suitable for bass. Seems like now there is! 


But realistically I would question if you have PA support, if that bottom end is anything other than a hinderance ...

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On 6 February 2018 at 13:25, EBS_freak said:

So who is killing rock and roll today then?

Me! Running a QSC 12.2 on Default mode and using a Tech 21 Q Strip as my pre. Loud and clear! 

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1 minute ago, danweb22 said:

Me! Running a QSC 12.2 on Default mode and using a Tech 21 Q Strip as my pre. Loud and clear! 

That Q Strip is boss.

PS. You b*stard. You are killing rock n roll.

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