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Interesting FRFR story..

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4 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Is that because they are supplying the Mk3? Not that it's an issue - I'm on the Mk3 - theres nothing worthwhile about the Mk4 that would want me to change.

Is there a good link out there regarding the differences to compare as I'm not familiar with RCF at all really. 

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7 minutes ago, dood said:

Is there a good link out there regarding the differences to compare as I'm not familiar with RCF at all really. 

The changes are basically a shape change in the cases (as the Mk3 was a bit marmite for people - so they refreshed the look of the 7 series) - and a change in the DSP to incorporate the FirPhase technology. The funny thing is, given that its a DSP change, there's no reason why the DSP couldn't be flashed onto a Mk3, given that the hardware doesn't appear to have changed. (I dont think thats going to be a reality any time soon though - they'll point to an upgrade to a Mk4)

Excerpt here -

RCF has introduced FiRPHASE technology in its DSP processing. FiRPHASE is designed to provide more transparency, clarity, and linearity into the brand’s new speaker products.
 
The first products to receive the new DSP include the HDL6-A and HDL50-A line array systems, TT45-CXA monitor, RCF ART 3 Series, ART 7 Series, and HD Series two-way composite speaker cabinets. Other RCF products with proprietary RDNet control software will be able to be upgraded through firmware updates.
 
Advanced FiR filtering technology has been conceived to deliver transparent sound and enhanced clarity. Transducers are engineered to have a natural characteristic that emit various frequencies in such a way that they are not time-aligned, therefore affecting the purity of sound from the original signal source.
 
The FiRPHASE technology monitors and adjusts these minute delays to provide an end result of 0 degrees linear phase. The algorithm corrects phase and amplitude by taking into account the weak points of the transducers and the resonances or cancellations created by the transducer.
 
The RCF FiRPHASE processing uses impulse response measurements to invert the loudspeaker’s phase without touching the amplitude equalization. This technique allows for increased control of phase at lower frequencies, reaching a higher resolution than industry-standard FIR filters have permitted.
 
The result is optimized dynamics, phase, and sonic detail for more transparency of the original input signal, increasing the quality of sound and performance of the speaker.
Edited by EBS_freak

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1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

The changes are basically a shape change in the cases (as the Mk3 was a bit marmite for people - so they refreshed the look of the 7 series) - and a change in the DSP to incorporate the FirPhase technology. The funny thing is, given that its a DSP change, there's no reason why the DSP couldn't be flashed onto a Mk3, given that the hardware doesn't appear to have changed. (I dont think thats going to be a reality any time soon though - they'll point to an upgrade to a Mk4)

Excerpt here -

RCF has introduced FiRPHASE technology in its DSP processing. FiRPHASE is designed to provide more transparency, clarity, and linearity into the brand’s new speaker products.
 
The first products to receive the new DSP include the HDL6-A and HDL50-A line array systems, TT45-CXA monitor, RCF ART 3 Series, ART 7 Series, and HD Series two-way composite speaker cabinets. Other RCF products with proprietary RDNet control software will be able to be upgraded through firmware updates.
 
Advanced FiR filtering technology has been conceived to deliver transparent sound and enhanced clarity. Transducers are engineered to have a natural characteristic that emit various frequencies in such a way that they are not time-aligned, therefore affecting the purity of sound from the original signal source.
 
The FiRPHASE technology monitors and adjusts these minute delays to provide an end result of 0 degrees linear phase. The algorithm corrects phase and amplitude by taking into account the weak points of the transducers and the resonances or cancellations created by the transducer.
 
The RCF FiRPHASE processing uses impulse response measurements to invert the loudspeaker’s phase without touching the amplitude equalization. This technique allows for increased control of phase at lower frequencies, reaching a higher resolution than industry-standard FIR filters have permitted.
 
The result is optimized dynamics, phase, and sonic detail for more transparency of the original input signal, increasing the quality of sound and performance of the speaker.

That's all well and good but is it any good for metal? 

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2 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Is that because they are supplying the Mk3? Not that it's an issue - I'm on the Mk3 - theres nothing worthwhile about the Mk4 that would want me to change.

No I’ve ordered a Mk4 version. From what they said it looks as though they just messed up my order.

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11 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

No I’ve ordered a Mk4 version. From what they said it looks as though they just messed up my order.

Ah - I've had an issue with Bax in the past also. Ordered loads of Neutrik sockets and jacks for making up all sorts of cables. They all got there in the end. Eventually.

Although I was surprised to get the big cardboard box with just one single female XLR end in....(!)

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As the OP I kinda feel I should contribute again!

Took it to a guitar jam day where I was bassing - range of rehearsal rooms, and a range of guitars/amps and all with drums.

As expected it performed flawlessly.. loads of headroom and plenty of lower frequencies. Fitted in beautifully with some high end boutique guitar amps and some big monsters too

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Will be gigging my K10.2 tomorrow at a venue which I've played at for over 12 years and has the boomiest stage I've ever encountered, not spoken to a single bass player who can get a decent sound on there either. Not the best first outing but hopefully the filters on my DI can remedy that a little.

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22 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

As the OP I kinda feel I should contribute again!

Took it to a guitar jam day where I was bassing - range of rehearsal rooms, and a range of guitars/amps and all with drums.

As expected it performed flawlessly.. loads of headroom and plenty of lower frequencies. Fitted in beautifully with some high end boutique guitar amps and some big monsters too

Successful outings then!

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It's arrived - a bit bigger and heavier than I was expecting - especially in the box.

I've only had one chance to use it with my Helix so far, and initial impressions are good although there is some excessive top-end zing. I believe there was a post in the Helix thread about using the LPF on the cab model setting to sort this out, but I haven't had time to go and look for the specific information.

Hopefully work won't be quite so busy next week and I'll have at least half a day to sit down and get a basic sound sorted out. 

One of my bands have some high-profile supports coming up in April and May and I'd like to have everything ready for then.

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Its a loud box, it's going to be quite sizeable... although I think @stingrayPete1977 sent me a pic of his 735 (same box as 745) sat next to the SRM450 it was replacing. There wasn't that much to be in it to be fair - and the 450 was a 12" driver cab.

Good luck with the tweaking - its always easier to take away frequencies than add - so I suspect that you will have no issues on that front.

Eager to hear your reports, especially after the gigs.

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Is it possible that they're a bit "zingy" because you were playing on the quieter end of the spectrum??

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4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

It's arrived - a bit bigger and heavier than I was expecting - especially in the box.

I've only had one chance to use it with my Helix so far, and initial impressions are good although there is some excessive top-end zing. I believe there was a post in the Helix thread about using the LPF on the cab model setting to sort this out, but I haven't had time to go and look for the specific information.

Hopefully work won't be quite so busy next week and I'll have at least half a day to sit down and get a basic sound sorted out. 

One of my bands have some high-profile supports coming up in April and May and I'd like to have everything ready for then.

High and low cuts are your friend when it comes to this sort of thing.  Either apply them on the cab block or run a high/low cut EQ block somewhere in your chain (i use it right at the end).  I started with a high cut around 10kHz but it's now around 4-5kHz - makes a massive difference running into IEMs/powered cabs/PA etc.  I also now use the low cut around 60Hz which tightens up the overall sound a lot

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I'm quite surprised that there's a perceived top end zing as these cabs come out dead flat on a smaart analyser. Guess we are all used to hearing different things - but I know RCF excel at top end reproduction.

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On 2/23/2018 at 16:07, EBS_freak said:

I'm quite surprised that there's a perceived top end zing as these cabs come out dead flat on a smaart analyser. Guess we are all used to hearing different things - but I know RCF excel at top end reproduction.

I think it's more that the cab is producing the actual sound of the basses including frequencies that would normally be attenuated in a traditional bass amp and cab.

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14 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I think it's more that the cab is producing the actual sound of the basses including frequencies that would normally be attenuated in a traditional bass amp and cab.

I agree - the top end on most bass cabs are highly attenuated... and additionally, bass cabs are traditionally far from flat response, especially in the mid range.

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An easy way of distinguishing this is to play a piano recording through your speaker. You'll hear immediately what the cab is doing to the signal. It may sound odd, but IMO playing bass through your bass cab is not necessarily the best test.

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7 minutes ago, stevie said:

An easy way of distinguishing this is to play a piano recording through your speaker. You'll hear immediately what the cab is doing to the signal. It may sound odd, but IMO playing bass through your bass cab is not necessarily the best test.

I have to say that I always go straight for my music collection and play my favourite well-known tunes through my cabinets for the reason you mention above. My usual system to listen to music through is a set of studio monitors, so it's very easy to tell what a speaker cabinet is doing to the sound in comparison. As @EBS_freak says, 90% of bass cabinets on the market are highly coloured. (the other 10% are coloured too for that matter ha ha) 

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Glad to hear it, Dood. My killer CD is by Madonna. Not only does her music have a lot of different bass sounds - which you can hear clearly on a good system - but her voice sounds awful if the system balance is wrong. Some people say that her voice is awful anyway, but that's not the point......

Edited by stevie
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Just a thought, would a largish keyboard amp (I may have access to a Roland KC 600) do the job modelling bass and guitar? I'd imagine they are full range and can handle lows pretty well?

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I have used a keyboard amp in a fairly quiet setting and it did seem very flat and went good and low. In fact, whenever I've played with keys players who've brought their own amps, there's been a real tendancy to abuse the weight of sound on offer, so they can certainly kick it out down low at volume!

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