Thinking of quitting the band....volume issues.

[ubit]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1472286526' post='3120014']


The amps themselves are not the problem...just how they are used.
[/quote]

I concur!

[hubrad]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1472205147' post='3119387']
Typically, if two gtrs have 412's, then you have to know why they are using them. If they can't tell you .... that is all you need to know.

You can tell a hell of a lot by the gear they bring...
[/quote]
I occasionally play with a chap round Bradford who, in his 60s, is a really tasty bassist after some injury a couple of decades meant he can't play guitar 'as well as he could'.. should hear him on guitar!
Anyway, in guitar mode his ultimate rig is a 12W combo.
He was never known, on any instrument, for being unheard!

[JTUK]

I can't compete with gtrs if they wind up their valves...but the point is I shouldn't need to. If the gtrs are too loud...there is no point chasing them.
And you only do it once as well....

A current outfit I'm out with use 2 gts and keys so all those guys need to know the value of space and dynamics. Single gtr bands in a 3 piece can be just as bad as they think they have to fill the sound out to carry/drive the song.

I get that the video about might have all sorts of compromises if someone somewhere was using a phone but I can't imagine that mix being any good..having said that, I wasn't there, so....??

[FinnDave]

Our guitarist uses 20 watt valve combo. He is frequently painfully loud, and I sometimes struggle to hear my 300 was bass combo over him.

[Twincam]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1472286526' post='3120014']


The amps themselves are not the problem...just how they are used.
[/quote]
[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1472297660' post='3120132']


I concur!
[/quote]

Indeed. But it is man's nature to abuse his power!

[Twincam]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1472306390' post='3120218']
Our guitarist uses 20 watt valve combo. He is frequently painfully loud, and I sometimes struggle to hear my 300 was bass combo over him.
[/quote]

I had a wem dominator bass 15w. I replaced the 15" speaker to a higher power full range one. Uses with guitar you could really crank it without speaker breakup it was painfully loud. With guitar It easy matched my 4x10 approx 300w bass setup at the time.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Twincam

[funkgod]

bigger headphones.
bigger bass rig.
see how they like.

not the answer, but.... ohhh it would feel good.

joking aside....i think..

even bigger headphones.
even bigger bass rig.....in stereo.

Edited August 27, 2016 by funkgod

[stingrayPete1977]

We just did most of the 2 hour set with no back line or monitors, I think I've found the point where you do need something! Pah, sound guy that didn't know what he was doing

[barneyg42]

Guitarists are strange animals! Ours does a large pub gig at reasonable volume with his cab miked and then does a tiny pub with a hole in the the corner for the band with it cranked up and no PA support!! Thank f*** for decent earplugs, although I'd rather not wear them! The singer doesn't like putting the bass through the PA, she reckons it's blown the powered desk before so I've ended up getting a 500 watt head and 4ohm 800 watt cab to keep up with the buggers!! Actually, I'm only on volume two at the most so it's more than capable!

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1472037549' post='3117866']
Maybe an electric kit is the answer.
[/quote]

Having playing in a couple of bands with an electronic kit I can tell you its a complete game changer, in one case we played at a really small pub with a volume level of probably a wedding disco setup and the sound quality was fantastic, audience and landlord loved it, we loved it because we could all hear ourselves and each other so clearly.

I completely dont buy this "compete with loud punters" thing at all - if your good and playing the right music they will shut up and listen.

[chris_b]

The only time I've played with an electronic kit the player didn't have proper monitoring and I was straining to hear him from the PA speakers. That was a very poor stage sound. It's left me with an ambivalence towards electric drum kits. This is one of those "if it ain't broke. . . . " subjects for me. I love the physicality of a well played traditional kit right beside me.

I used to play with a very loud guitarist who insisted that my amp was equally loud. I used 6 10's and had FOH in that band. I was happy with a level coming back through the monitors, but he wanted to [i]feel[/i] the bass behind him. I've just done my first gig with the drummer to the side of the stage facing me and now I get it. The feel (the Oomph) of the bass drum pointing right at me gave a huge boost to my playing.

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1472328299' post='3120422']
We just did most of the 2 hour set with no back line or monitors, I think I've found the point where you do need something! Pah, sound guy that didn't know what he was doing
[/quote]

Did you remember to check your bass was plugged in?

(joking, of course... but 'a friend' of mine once had issues with his gear that turned out to be fixed simply by plugging in )

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='gareth' timestamp='1472233859' post='3119732']
Said rig in operation

[media]http://youtu.be/eNIiZ0Tck-M[/media]
[/quote]
Ugh. And people complain that nobody goes and sees loud music. Vocals are number one.

If the PA can't compete with the guitar amps on stage, the amps are too big. The PA should be way more powerful than anything else. Give the guitarists circa 20w max and a mic if they need any more.

Edited August 29, 2016 by EBS_freak

[mcnach]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1472465992' post='3121236']
The only time I've played with an electronic kit the player didn't have proper monitoring and I was straining to hear him from the PA speakers. That was a very poor stage sound. It's left me with an ambivalence towards electric drum kits. This is one of those "if it ain't broke. . . . " subjects for me. I love the physicality of a well played traditional kit right beside me.

I used to play with a very loud guitarist who insisted that my amp was equally loud. I used 6 10's and had FOH in that band. I was happy with a level coming back through the monitors, but he wanted to [i]feel[/i] the bass behind him. I've just done my first gig with the drummer to the side of the stage facing me and now I get it. The feel (the Oomph) of the bass drum pointing right at me gave a huge boost to my playing.
[/quote]

Yeah, I get that we're used to having that loud thing making a racket next to us, and it feels a little disconcerting at first... but your bad experience above wasn't the kit's fault! It's like saying I broke a string on my white bass and ever since I feel weird about playing white basses... If you have an electric kit, then you must have it through the monitors, otherwise it's pretty crap. I played a 'quieter' type of gig at a local bar where they specified we should use their Roland e-kit so that they can control the levels completely. The drummer did have a small monitor pointing at him, but there was precious little monitoring for anybody else, they relied on our own backline turned down a lot. It was hard to play when you can see the drummer make movements with his arms from a corner of your eye, but without the usual accompanying sound... it was hard to keep time. But that wasn't the kit's fault, it was just a badly thought set up.

[zbd1960]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1472033333' post='3117805']
another do you mic up the drums? if you do, don't ( maybe a bit of bass drum if you must) and set the other levels to match them, can never understand why bands mic up the drums for a small pub gig
[/quote] I don't get this either. Drums are inherently LOUD, neither they nor trumpets, trombones nor saxes need amplifying in small venues....

[blue]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1472501262' post='3121663']

Ugh. And people complain that nobody goes and sees loud music. Vocals are number one.

If the PA can't compete with the guitar amps on stage, the amps are too big. The PA should be way more powerful than anything else. Give the guitarists circa 20w max and a mic if they need any more.
[/quote]

Agreed, vocals are number 1. Having a "star" out front also very important.

Great lead vocalist EBS.

Blue

[TimR]

[quote name='zbd1960' timestamp='1472501909' post='3121670']
I don't get this either. Drums are inherently LOUD, neither they nor trumpets, trombones nor saxes need amplifying in small venues....
[/quote]

The theory is the drummer (or brass) player can then play at comfortable volumes while the PA projects the sound at ear level rather than the drummer trying to make the sound from the bass drum travel through the front row of the audiences knees.

Unfortunately, not a lot of bands understand what the PA is for.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='zbd1960' timestamp='1472501909' post='3121670']
I don't get this either. Drums are inherently LOUD, neither they nor trumpets, trombones nor saxes need amplifying in small venues....
[/quote]

Drums are not inherently loud. They would be put through the PA so that they may, even, be played more quietly..! The real advantage, in a small venue, is simply to spread the sound, especially of the bass drum, but all the kit too, into the overall sound of the band. This avoids having those at the front hearing the kit differently than those at the sides or back. The objective is not amplification, but overall sound reinforcement and balance. The drummer plays at his/her ordinary level, and [i]all [/i]in the room hear the whole band correctly. No use, of course, if the person behind the kit wallops away like a shed-builder, I'll allow, but for [i]real [/i]drummers, it's a very common and useful ploy, harming no kittens. The drums are not loud in the PA, merely [i]present[/i].

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1472501030' post='3121658']


Did you remember to check your bass was plugged in?

(joking, of course... but 'a friend' of mine once had issues with his gear that turned out to be fixed simply by plugging in )
[/quote]
I had a backline, 900 watts of it, not much fun without hearing the guitar or vocals though

Guitarist was ampless and using a Godin synth guitar for some and a Variax for the rest, disaster.

[zbd1960]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1472503838' post='3121688']
Drums are not inherently loud. They would be put through the PA so that they may, even, be played more quietly..! The real advantage, in a small venue, is simply to spread the sound, especially of the bass drum, but all the kit too, into the overall sound of the band. This avoids having those at the front hearing the kit differently than those at the sides or back. The objective is not amplification, but overall sound reinforcement and balance. The drummer plays at his/her ordinary level, and [i]all [/i]in the room hear the whole band correctly. No use, of course, if the person behind the kit wallops away like a shed-builder, I'll allow, but for [i]real [/i]drummers, it's a very common and useful ploy, harming no kittens. The drums are not loud in the PA, merely [i]present[/i].
[/quote] Thanks for that, it makes sense. Unfortunately, my (limited) experience suggests things get hit as hard as possible most of the time