solo4652 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) Following a spell in hospital and associated MRI scans, I've just been diagnosed with Arthritis at C5 and C6 vertebrae in my neck. Nerves leading from my spinal cord are being squeezed by bulging vertebrae. I know that this is a pretty common occurence in people of a certain age. I'm struggling to play bass because of weakness and numbness in my left arm and hand. I've made myself a waist strap that takes nearly all of the weight of my basses (Yamaha BB424, BB1024) but still have a neck strap to stop the bass tilting forward. Trouble is, my left arm and hand coordination is suffering. I also get random episodes of mild dizziness and vertigo. I've had to stop playing golf and racing sailboats. I'm not especially comfortable driving. I'm trying not to panic, but this degenerative condition is having far-reaching consequences. There is no "cure", as such - just pain management so you can keep going as best you can. Painkillers, cortisone injections and a scary operation whereby vertebrae are caged and/or bolted together. I'm asking for any advice from other bassists who have this condition, please. What have you done to enable you to carry on playing? What treatments have you had that have worked for you? Is there anything I can do to help myself cope with this? I'm happy to discuss this on here, or via PM. Steve Edited June 6, 2016 by solo4652 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 This is something you really need to get expert advice on, rather than opinions from people on a bass forum. Even if something has worked for somebody with the same condition it doesn't mean that it will work for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Feel for you Steve. Have had a similar ongoing complaint. Like above, i'd advise expert help although its pretty difficult and expensive once found. Painkillers and/or marijuana seem to be the most effective treatments for my personal circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1465233361' post='3066372'] This is something you really need to get expert advice on, rather than opinions from people on a bass forum. Even if something has worked for somebody with the same condition it doesn't mean that it will work for you. [/quote] Agree wholeheartedly with sentiments of RhysP. That being said, a good practitioner of The Alexander Technique will teach you the importance of posture and the integral role of the neck, along with a good idea of how to consciously position the neck relative to the trunk. Best wishes for your future health Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stance Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Hello, My 2 cents. I've suffered for pain in my wrist, forearms, shoulder, neck and elbows (and as I right this, I'm fighting a case of bursitis on my left elbow..) I've done acupunture (that has helped me a lot), I've also found that sleeping on a good, high quality matress helps, and in the future I will try Ayurveda - can't explain exactly what it is (I suggest the internet for that), but a friend of mine does it, and the results are astonishing. Mind you that this is based on my own experiences, and that I don't mean, in any way stop you from checking a doctor. I wish you all the best! Regards from Portugal Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Nothing to offer except commiserations and best wishes. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerstodge Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1465234178' post='3066382'] Feel for you Steve. Have had a similar ongoing complaint. Like above, i'd advise expert help although its pretty difficult and expensive once found. Painkillers and/or marijuana seem to be the most effective treatments for my personal circumstances. [/quote]+1 on the marijuana, done wonders for my neck, shoulder pain and numbness, my osteopath put mine down to wear and tear, I have 1 shoulder 2 inches lower than t' other apparently? He said it must be because of the weight of my basses ?? How come Macca's shoulder isn't 4" lower than the other? He's been playin 25 yrs longer than me. I have tried marijuana for pain relief but I'm not a stoner, maaaann!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Get your GP to refer you to a spinal specialist unit, not your local neuro/ortho guys. Yes, the ops can be scary, but the quicker you act, the greater the chances of a good outcome. Spinal Unit at Frenchay, Bristol, was my life saver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) My ex wife had regular problems with her lower back causing sciatica in her leg. She had several discectomies where they tried to shave off part of the bulge in the disc. These gave varying levels of success, but the problem would always return. (EDIT: My dad has had one discectomy op for a similar condition, and he has been fine for 3 years, so it probably just depends on the person.) In the end, she had the disc removed, and a Wallis cage fitted. I don't know what they are like in the upper back, but when we researched it, cage was probably the wrong word. It was more like a lego block with two loops. The block would sit between the protrusions from the spine bones and the loops would loop over them to hold it in place. This allows for some limited movement, and means it is not a full fusion of two bones (as you say bolted together). For her, it was a new lease of life. I think the nerve was too damaged so she does still get some sciatica, but in comparison to what she had before pain wise, it is a world apart. *Please note this is just some notes on her experience, I think my hopeless medical jargon (i.e. spine bones) would make it obvious that I am not a doctor or expert by any means! Edited June 7, 2016 by Huge Hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel36 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Doesn't work for everyone but.....it changed my life from day one, and I suffered for many years. " Decompress " Inversion table. http://inversionhelps.com/inversion-table-for-neck-pain/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I have a couple of bulging vertebrae and have found Pilates really useful. Likewise is the advice 'different courses for different horses and one size does not fit all' Others will poo poo but a holistic view( in its broadest sense) may be helpful too. I've also found relief from pain with Acupuncture and McTimoney Chiropractor. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 i have had arthritic problems with my back for over 25 years now - the only time it significantly went away was when i managed for a few short months to almost completely (as far as practicably possibly) eliminate wheat and wheat based foods from my diet NSAIDS used to be taken like candy until i rattled but u;timately only really ever took the edge off it - or maybe it was also the getting too keen to resort to the fizzy and subtlly addictive paracetomol and codeine - nowadays i lay off all nsaids and only take them as a desperate last resort am currently going to go back to the wheat free thing - very slowly though - you may titter and laugh but it is possibly more difficuclt than giving up smoking! dont believe me then try it for yourself there is plenty of stuff on the interwebs for research hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Steve, our Singer/Sax Player had exactly the same condition and the symptoms were identical. I'm more than happy to have a chat about his experiences or if you want or drop into The John Millington in Cheadle on Friday. We are gigging there and I can speak to you then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Don't start self medicating or taking large amounts of pain pills. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) Sorry to read about your troubles....Ironically (sound like I'm going on about it) I've just posted in another thread about it..... I have a condition called Ankylosing spondylitis, an auto immune generated for of arthritis. It affects many areas for me , but my neck in particular, causing fusion of joints and trapping or crushing of nerves. My trouble is lifting my arms up causes numb hands within minutes, a difficult concept for a bass player, especially when playing upright bass. My symptoms are similar to yours, Affects my lower back and legs too in the same way.... I use many medications, inject some pretty toxic nasties! But injection of steroid into the neck in theatre under X-ray, help immensely. Like you, I've had to stop doing so many things I used to do but I am adamant that playing bass will be the last thing it takes from me. I hope you feel the same in regard to adding bass playing to the long list of "things I can no longer do".... As for the suggestion of marijuana ..... Well, there's actually more to this than getting high. In fact, the type of marijuana or more specifically cannabis you require is one which is seed bread and cultivated for the highest yield of CBD. Their are two key ingredients to "weed" one is the, the bit that is the psycho active ingredient, this is the bit that gets you stoned in the head.....and then there is CBD, the part which is an anti inflammatory, muscle relaxant and generally the bit that makes you feel relaxed when "stoned". The medicinal marajuana is bread to have virtually zero THC. The process is goes through from plant to product (oil) typically removes all thc traces completely. The end result is a natural anti inflammatory that seems by report to work well. Unlike most of the pharmaceutical man made variants that will destroy you guts in no time flat. Is expensive, typically £25 for 10ml of ecig vale oil, but. My local ecig shop sells it ( which saves me having to buy online as I used to) I smoke it in my ecig and it works well in relaxing the tension in muscles I get from holding sore parts as I gingerly creak through the day. Zero high, just natural anti inflammatory. I'd recommend it, it helps for sure, but bet your bottom dollar I wouldn't trade it for the anti tnf injects, steroids or morphine I use daily. I do hope you can keep playing, and as I recommended in my other related post, (fatigue) I can't recommend the musician sterling highly enough, it light, 32" scale but shorter body.... It has helped me massively. As well as bass bunnies lovely offer, I'm only in Runcorn ... If ever you want a chat, instant message, meet for a coffee ( kind do beer, add that to the list of things I love but can no longer do)..... It often helps to talk about things, and I understand fully that you just don't want to bore family and friends with it..... Just ask mate.... Edited June 7, 2016 by Wonky2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1465331198' post='3067319'] Don't start self medicating or taking large amounts of pain pills. Blue [/quote] Agree on the self medicating but as for taking pills.... Sometimes the choice just isn't there blue I hate meds, every single one comes with a side effect that can often be as bad as the symptom... Trading one problem for another. There comes a point when you have to choose between living with the symptom or living with the side effect, often for some, living with the symptom just isn't an option. Becoming reliant on pain meds is a dangerous game for sure.... What I would say, a pit fall so many people seem to fall for, never exceed the prescribed dosage. I was taking a huge amount of horrible pain meds, reactively , which was most of the time. I've swapped it some time ago for a stronger pain med but at a lower dose which I take three times daily, morphine sulphate. This lower but constant dose seems to work better than spikes of reactive pain meds such as tramadol or the like. Sounds extreme, but it's fairly tame. The hardest thing to do is describe , locate or work out what type of pain it is you have, often two different types confuse the description meaning the wrong drugs are prescribed. Trying to focus on your pain and work out what it is helps immensely... For example... I thought my pain was either inflammatory or nerve pain combined, and took pain meds accordingly... Focusing closely I was able to advise that muscle pain and spasms from holding myself tense for long periods of time were a part of the mix. Some muscle relaxants later, more specifically CBD vale oil , I can get a half decent night sleep. Kind of For me, I've come to understand that pain meds don't work. They help a little because if I've not had them boy do I know about it, but I'm not gonna go down the route of taking more and more, I still work (reduced hours ), drive, play bass in a band, being a zombie will soon put an end to all that..... Unless u live with chronic pain, it's kinda hard to comprehend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrumpymike Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Hi Steve. I've got excessive 'wear and tear' at the base of my neck and the bottom of my spine causing nerve issues and similar symptoms to what you and others are suffering: in my case, hands turning 'wooden', sciatic pains, muscles across shoulders/neck knotting up. I'm not treating with pharma's or natural drugs, but I'm finding that the lifestyle changes I've made since being diagnosed with t2 diabetes 3 years ago are helping, along with occasional remedial massage and stretching exercises courtesy of the local NHS physio dep't. (The alternative suggestions already posted on this thread have been gratefully received, thanks!) Bass-wise, I've gone 'short-scale lite' including 040-095" strings and a home-made contraption that improves the balance/positioning of my SWB-1 main gig bass. Can't say I'm enjoying the feeling of playing on borrowed time though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) [quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1465326375' post='3067235'] i have had arthritic problems with my back for over 25 years now - the only time it significantly went away was when i managed for a few short months to almost completely (as far as practicably possibly) eliminate wheat and wheat based foods from my diet NSAIDS used to be taken like candy until i rattled but u;timately only really ever took the edge off it - or maybe it was also the getting too keen to resort to the fizzy and subtlly addictive paracetomol and codeine - nowadays i lay off all nsaids and only take them as a desperate last resort am currently going to go back to the wheat free thing - very slowly though - you may titter and laugh but it is possibly more difficuclt than giving up smoking! dont believe me then try it for yourself there is plenty of stuff on the interwebs for research hope this helps [/quote] Lots of interesting studies on this over the years, or more so the starch free diet (nsd) .... The mist very latest studies have shown that the once thought Klebsiella bacteria isn't responsible inflammatory based medical issues.... But, if you get some relief from the wheat free approach, then that's great ! I know my type of arthritis is different to most, but like others it is a genetic auto immune disorder. Drugs.....pharma drugs aren't for everyone, but for me I'm at the point were living without them isn't a choice. NSAIDs (non steroidal anti inflammatory drugs) provide relief to many as the first line of treatment, but often play havoc with the digestive system. I got great relief for a long time from a drug called arcoxia 120mg but had to stop it.....moving onto DMARD's (disease modifying anti rheumatic drugs) these help some but for most just cause wicked fatigue and orange wee , methotrexate pills or injections... Usually come after NSAIDs... These are city toxic cell killing drugs, used for chemo therapy. The newest mainstream drugs are anti tnf (anti tumour necrosis factor alpha inhibitors), these basically lower you immune system and r body attacking itself. Prescribed mostly for rheumatoid arthritis, Ankylosing spondylitis, and phsoriatic arthritis.... None of them are pain killers, usually pain meds be it analgesic, paracetamol or opiates are usually taken along side. Incidentally, I'd point out that paracetamol is a highly under rated drug. It's fairly harmless, doesn't have any major side effects... When taken two at a time does little for real pain, but when taken two at a time every four hours for longer periods can provide good relief, you have to learn to take them even when you don't feel like you need them. That's not to say take them all the time, but be pro active and get a maintained dose in your body when you need it. Me, I take a daily low dose of slow relief morphine (zomorph) and use morphine sulphate (ora morph)for pain spikes ... But before I reach for the ora morph I use a course of paracetamol to try and fend things off. It takes time to learn how to use a "toolkit" of drugs. The greatest relief I get bar none is heat. A hot wheat bag has been my bets friend for some time. Tens machine really does help too, they are relatively cheap these days too. Obese you get used to the zapping it works well to just numb and area or turn pain into fuzz. The CBD hemp oil is great, you can get rubbing balms or I smoke it as an ecig vale. (Zero high) I've had them all. It's a bullet next Edited June 7, 2016 by Wonky2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofio Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I have Foraminal Stenosis at C1/2 and C5/6 with bone spurs , i have the very same problems and again in my left hand, i find it better on some days and other i also happen to be a pipe band snare drummer, i have not been able to commit to any bands the last couple of years as my condition is unreliable, as far as bass goes i am usually ok, just certain times if i sleep the wrong way and the nerves are trapped i cannot move, you really just have to judge the situation day by day, that is all you can do really operation is not possible for me as too dangerous. probably the same for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patster1969 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Feel for you, any back/neck issues are horrible. Diet could be a good place to look though Steve. A wife of a friend of mine had had back issues/pain for several years (10+), which resulted in her ending up in a wheelchair after a back operation after years of physio/alternative therapies that never sorted the issue. I'm not sure how but after this, she was tested and found to be a celiac, so after changing her diet, she is now pretty much free on the back issues (she has since also had a daughter which she carried full term with no problems with her back). Maybe have an allergy test or speak to a celiac expert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Thank you to everybody who has posted advice and suggestions here. I am very grateful. My waist strap for supporting the bass' weight is working pretty well. I'll need to practise with it because the playing position has been subtly altered. In terms of the weight on my neck, I can play about 8 songs before I need a rest. The more worrying problem is the weakness and worsening coordination in my left hand. I'm also starting to get random muscle spasms in my left arm. Consequently, my fretting is slowly becoming less accurate and thus more and more frustrating. I've started to look at those lightweight travel bass thingies as a possibility. Currently, both of the bands I'm "in" are idling in neutral, so I'm getting a natural break. However, I'm holding back from approaching other bands because my confidence has taken a big knock. I am taking strong NSAID painkillers, but I don't see that as a long-term solution. I get very mixed reports regarding the effectiveness of steroid injections. The operation that cages the bulging vertebrae is described as having a 50/50 chance of relieving my arm pain, but probably wouldn't affect my neck or chest pain, or the weakness in my arm. The operation can sometimes affect your swallowing and talking for a while afterwards. Don't like the sound of that, thank you - not with those odds. For now, I'm trying to make practical lifestyle changes to get round the things I've been struggling with; upstairs [i]and[/i] downstairs hoovers, reversing camera fitted to my car, using a hosepipe rather than a heavy watering can in the garden - those sorts of things. I've been reading up about the Alexander Technique, but I'm struggling to separate the sensible bio-mechanics from the sub-Jungian psychobabble. My background as a professional Psychologist could have something to do with that! Sorry - I'm rambling here. Please do keep the suggestions coming. Thank you to the B/C community once again, Steve Edited June 9, 2016 by solo4652 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrumpymike Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Steve, diet is a factor that's been mentioned in a couple of posts - including my own. Have a good think about that one; there's a body of anecdotal evidence that suggests a radical change in diet may improve conditions that you wouldn't expect to be affected. In my case, the low-carb diet I adopted to combat T2D (without resorting to medication) has reduced my bass-playing handicap. This type of diet is generally recommended to obese diabetics as a means of losing a lot of weight and I was hesitant to try it, being 'only' a couple of stone above my ideal BMI; so I didn't do the low-carb 'full monty' - just enough to lose the excess baggage - but felt hugely better in all sorts of ways! I have a hunch (two, if you include 'the bass-player's hunch) that what goes on inside our guts has far-reaching health implications that we are only just on the threshold of understanding. Interestingly, the early indications are that it's disorders involving the immune system that benefit most. Of course, this may not help you - in fact I may be talking a complete load of tosh - but it's a relatively low-risk option. In any event, please accept it as a genuine attempt to be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerstodge Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I don't think you're talking tosh Mike, I seem to have got my aches pains, funny feelings etc soon after I piled on about 3 stone, I never changed eating habits, tho I do drink to much, I think we put weight on as our metabolism slows down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I am on Anti-TNF. I got psoriatic arthritis at 19. I had Sulphasalazine that worked for a few years. Got onto Methotrexate which was great for a few years. My condition deteriorated so badly. My knees were swollen, my neck was so bad i couldnt turn my head. My feet are pretty disfigured and the pain was unbearable. My wrist has seized up amd cant bend it. I was at the point of giving up work. Since being on Anti TNF, i joined a gym, took up bass, all the swelling has gone, and most of my pain has all gone. I can't guarantee it would work for you , or even if you will be prescribed it, but to use an often used phrase, it has changed my live. Hopefully you will get help as soon as possible, as it is great if it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Glad to hear it's done you well timmo... Ive been on 3 different anti tnf plus metho injections for my AS and still cant get a good result :(but for some, its a Miracle! The results are slight but i would not want to be without them. Steve, i know when my kneck flares up and gives me more jip than usual, leaning to one side such as on my elbow can compleltwy turn my left hand off ! I look at it, i intell it to make a fiat and it just spasms... Its a bit alraming really... That being said, there alot to be said for learning to ifentify the things that make you worse and thinking proactivly to avoid doing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.