Barefaced vs Vanderkley vs PJB

[Dood]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1452844385' post='2953930']


Some amps just don't "work" with some cabs. I tried a few different ones with my BF Big One so i learned that the hard way...
[/quote]

Yes some combinations are almost counterintuitive tonally. You want a big fat juicy amp tone then buy a cabinet that has the same sonic character but you end up with flubby low end and incoherent top end. Been there, bought the T Shirt...

[Dood]

[quote name='siphillips' timestamp='1452845842' post='2953944']
Thanks for your response everyone,

Firstly I already have a very clean/true sounding bass head the m500 sounds like no other too my ears and I've used the usual ( mark bass , Genz Benz , ampeg and TC).

The barefaced cab is nice it's not the issue however just on a few points raised I would say the cab can sound boxy at times and have found this to be where the cab is placed in the room ( like any other bass cab). However to my ears it seems to be more obv with this.

Yes mostly my gigs are in tight spaces where my cab is at my knees and I am pretty much standing on it due to floor space so I know this may be an issue.

* Going back to the initial point in the post -

I'm looking for a cab as a spare and back up , no looking to outshine the BF cab looking for similar in terms of a one cab solution.
[/quote]

Ok this sounds familiar. The BB cabs have much less of a mid dip in the response than many cabinets I have owned. This coupled with firing the sound in to your legs on stage softens the top end further accentuating those mids. Depending on amp settings and cabinet placement your lows possibly receded will not help. The boxy character would suggest a number of things adding up to make one problem.

[siphillips]

To add:

I was thinking about adding a BF midget to the BB2 , with the thought that the cab would be higher (Nearer ear level) and would also add more depth to the rig.

[siphillips]

DOOD. Thanks for that and your constructive response. I do think the gig environment is much a factor in the tone scenario in which I speak of. Placement of cab / Room/ Floor surface its on/ stage size and where I am in relation to it. Its really hard to get these things right at every venue you pass through! But we can only try!

Edited January 15, 2016 by siphillips

[Dood]

[quote name='siphillips' timestamp='1452848102' post='2953973']
DOOD. Thanks for that and your constructive response. I do think the gig environment is much a factor in the tone scenario in which I speak of. Placement of cab / Room/ Floor surface its on/ stage size and where I am in relation to it. Its really hard to get these things right at every venue you pass through! But we can only try!
[/quote]

Awww Thank you!I hope it has helped a bit!

I can't help feeling that's also a major reason why I am doomed with insufferable G.A.S!!!

So... how do we get round these on stage sound imperfections??? In-ears!! Now that's a whole different can of worms!!

[stevie]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1452808919' post='2953790']
The BB2 will go much louder than any other 112 cab, including the Vanderkley.
[/quote]

Would you care to substantiate that claim?

[franzbassist]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1452842275' post='2953916']
The BB2 is only second to a nuns habit when it comes to being untainted.
[/quote]

Early contender for BC Quote of the Year right there

[chris_b]

Another BB2 would give you 2 options. Adding an SM would give you 3 options.

I'm currently using 2 Super Compacts. Volume-wise I can use 1 SC cab where I used my Berg CN212 before. They are light enough for me to bring both to a gig and then decide how many I need to use. I like the look of 2 cabs and so I sometimes set both up and just use the top cab.

[Dood]

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1452849362' post='2953993']
Early contender for BC Quote of the Year right there
[/quote]


Very unusual for me to come up with [i]anything[/i] witty so early in the day. I think I'll pat myself on the back

[machinehead]

The SM and BB2 do indeed give you three options as mentioned above and they also pair up very well.

One other point (with an apology if you already know this), but the horn knob on the BB2 operates counter-intuitively and is "off" when you might expect it to be "on". But it might be only me that thinks this.

Frank.

[MoonBassAlpha]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1452849092' post='2953990']


Would you care to substantiate that claim?
[/quote]
Volume displacement of the driver?

[karlfer]

I got two of them Phil Jones C4 lites and tried them at home the day they arrived.
They were on their way back to Thomann the following day.

Beautiful tone out of them, but VERY lacking in the beans dept. Even with my (at the time PUMA 900)
No way would I get the volume out of them that I need live. Hugely disappointing.

Although in a gig hiatus until next weekend, the two TKS S112's with my newly acquired PUMA 500 give me no such concerns.

The 2 Vanderkley EX112'S I had were excellent, but I simply wanted smaller boxes (and less glue smell!)

Edited January 16, 2016 by karlfer

[siphillips]

Hey Karlfer , thanks for your comment . Shame to hear the c4 Lites didn't do the job. What kind of gigs were you using them for? Was there a big difference with the Vanderkley?

Cheers.

[karlfer]

They never got as far as gigs. I wouldn't have dared.

The only time stage volume really matters is when you don't have foh/decent monitor system.

Those 2 x CLites would not have given enough volume (for me) in the larger pubs my covers band does.
Against 2 Blackstar 2 x 12 guitarists and a drummer with mic'd up kick and snare.

The Vanderkleys easily dealt with those robust evenings.

[BassManGraham]

I have PJBs & Vanderkleys. I love them both but pound for pound my Vanderkleys are lighter and seem louder.

I have 2 PJB C8s at 800w each. They are crisp, clear and articulate and pretty damn loud particularly when used together. BUT.... I also have four Vanderkley cabs all 600W each (generally only use two at a time) two 112MNTs and two 210MNTs. I use the Vanderkleys more, particularly for larger theatre and festival gigs. Do try and have a listen and satisfy yourself.

The smaller PJBs such as C4s etc are not that loud, but the 800W C8s (8 x 5s) are IMHO more impressive and could suit most needs so don't rule them out.

[IanA]

[quote name='BassManGraham' timestamp='1452965371' post='2955190']
I have PJBs & Vanderkleys. I love them both but pound for pound my Vanderkleys are lighter and seem louder.

I have 2 PJB C8s at 800w each. They are crisp, clear and articulate and pretty damn loud particularly when used together. BUT.... I also have four Vanderkley cabs all 600W each (generally only use two at a time) two 112MNTs and two 210MNTs. I use the Vanderkleys more, particularly for larger theatre and festival gigs. Do try and have a listen and satisfy yourself
[/quote]
That is a lot of Vanderkley cabs!
I have two of the 112 mnt cabs and cannot imagine ever getting close to what they are capable of.
Recently played through four of them at Bass Direct powered by the Aurora... Now that was seriously impressive 👍

[lo-freq]

I would think the best backup cab for a BB2 would be a 2nd BB2.
What kind of bass guitar(s) & strings do you use?

[siphillips]

Hey Lo Freq,

I'm using a Musicman stingray 5 (flats)
Sandberg Pm 5 - pro steels
4 string squire (classics vibe P) - nickel strings I think.

Edited January 17, 2016 by siphillips

[Dood]

If I understand it correctly, a PJB cab with eight 5" cones in is roughly equivalent to a standard 2x10 cabinet in terms of speaker surface area.

[Audiokostas]

I had the pleasure to play with a BB2 as well as with a Vanderkley EXT112 (among EBS, Aguilar and Tecamp) in a test I performed for 12" bass cabs for a Greek music forum.

Both were excellent cabs in their own way and clearly, for my taste, the best two of the bunch.

It would not be easy to choose between the two but if I was hard pressed, I would probably lean towards the Vanderkley (which I have to admit that I purchased).

That does not mean that the BB2 was by any means inferior (though being a pre-production model had some minor quality issues that I am sure that have been fixed by now) compared to its Dutch counterpart.

My feeling (and I emphatically repeat, for my taste and needs) was that the EXT had a better overall balance for (small) live /studio / home practice use whereas the BB2 sometimes felt to me as being a bit “too much”. There were (of course, being in the south-east part of Mediterranean) some steamy arguments about both cabs (as well as for the others but to a lesser extend) and which one was the best.

One thing I can say though, is I can easily live with either of them with the confidence that both of them are excellent cabs backed up by very prompt, friendly and courteous support from their manufacturers Marc and Alex. I would like to thank them both for the experience they provided me with.

Here is a jam with the BB2
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW3NCWz5zEo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=cW3NCWz5zEo[/url]

And here is one with the Vanderkley
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMbWrns0CRw"]https://www.youtube....h?v=rMbWrns0CRw[/url]

Edited January 25, 2016 by Audiokostas

[IanA]

[quote name='Audiokostas' timestamp='1453743433' post='2962366']
I had the pleasure to play with a BB2 as well as with a Vanderkley EXT112 (among EBS, Aguilar and Tecamp) in a test I performed for 12" bass cabs for a Greek music forum.

Both were excellent cabs in their own way and clearly, for my taste, the best two of the bunch.

It would not be easy to choose between the two but if I was hard pressed, I would probably lean towards the Vanderkley (which I have to admit that I purchased).

That does not mean that the BB2 was by any means inferior (though being a pre-production model had some minor quality issues that I am sure that have been fixed by now) compared to its Dutch counterpart.

My feeling (and I emphatically repeat, for my taste and needs) was that the EXT had a better overall balance for (small) live /studio / home practice use whereas the BB2 sometimes felt to me as being a bit “too much”. There were (of course, being in the south-east part of Mediterranean) some steamy arguments about both cabs (as well as for the others but to a lesser extend) and which one was the best.

One thing I can say though, is I can easily live with either of them with the confidence that both of them are excellent cabs backed up by very prompt, friendly and courteous support from their manufacturers Marc and Alex. I would like to thank them both for the experience they provided me with.

Here is a jam with the BB2
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW3NCWz5zEo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=cW3NCWz5zEo[/url]

And here is one with the Vanderkley
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMbWrns0CRw"]https://www.youtube....h?v=rMbWrns0CRw[/url]
[/quote]
Nice videos, you have a really nice workable tone in both jams, is there a reason why you did not give the 112MNT a go rather than the EXT?

[chardbass]

[quote name='Audiokostas' timestamp='1453743433' post='2962366']
I had the pleasure to play with a BB2 as well as with a Vanderkley EXT112 (among EBS, Aguilar and Tecamp) in a test I performed for 12" bass cabs for a Greek music forum.

Both were excellent cabs in their own way and clearly, for my taste, the best two of the bunch.

It would not be easy to choose between the two but if I was hard pressed, I would probably lean towards the Vanderkley (which I have to admit that I purchased).

That does not mean that the BB2 was by any means inferior (though being a pre-production model had some minor quality issues that I am sure that have been fixed by now) compared to its Dutch counterpart.

My feeling (and I emphatically repeat, for my taste and needs) was that the EXT had a better overall balance for (small) live /studio / home practice use whereas the BB2 sometimes felt to me as being a bit “too much”. There were (of course, being in the south-east part of Mediterranean) some steamy arguments about both cabs (as well as for the others but to a lesser extend) and which one was the best.

One thing I can say though, is I can easily live with either of them with the confidence that both of them are excellent cabs backed up by very prompt, friendly and courteous support from their manufacturers Marc and Alex. I would like to thank them both for the experience they provided me with.

Here is a jam with the BB2
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW3NCWz5zEo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=cW3NCWz5zEo[/url]

And here is one with the Vanderkley
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMbWrns0CRw"]https://www.youtube....h?v=rMbWrns0CRw[/url]
[/quote]

Hey, I haven't clicked on your links as I've already seen your videos a while back. The one thing that struck me when I watched them was your reaction when you played your 5 string throughout the Barefaced cab- you turned around and nodded approvingly and gave a good bass-face . What was it that made you do that compared to the others?

[Audiokostas]

@IanA: The main reason was pricing. I tried to have all cabs as close as possible in terms of specs and pricing. The test supposed to be for affordable 12" European cabs but since we had the Aguilar in hand (and Italians could not send a cab at that time) we did not let the chance go by.

@chardbass: The face of John (professional session player with a 35 years’ experience and, being a bass gear collector extraordinaire, quite knowledgeable in a vast array of bass gear) is made because of being impressed by the beefy reproduction of the B string by the BB2. “Ballsy and well defined bottom” is what he said. On the other hand, the scissor sign (towards me) around 9:45 was signifying a feeling of slight unwanted compression around lower midrange.

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='IanA' timestamp='1452839665' post='2953902']

Absolutely ChrisB I had totally overlooked those things and have now come to my senses... clearly the op needs to learn how to use his amp correctly or even replace his amp altogether for one that is a little more flat response/honest/puts out what you put in/high efficiency/ louder than any other amp for the size and weight, and most importantly can push those very special custom made, top secret, state of the art drivers with unbelievably impressive Xmax and dispersion performance to their limit, it is inconceivable that someone would find a B*******d product not to taste!
[/quote]As an Electronics Engineer, I am a firm believer that you should only claim what you can measure although Chis is not alone in his assertions.

However surely such a sarcastic, narky, character assassination is unwarranted.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Chienmortbb

[chris_b]

As an Electronics Engineer you should find the technical information on the Barefaced website an interesting read.