why an active bass?

[mcnach]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1419969319' post='2644492']
I rarely find the need to even touch my tone controls, but I did have to when I first got the bass to get the default sound I wanted.
[/quote]

That is true! Once I find a tone I like on a bass, I tend to stick to those settings. It;s only very minor tweaks after that, depending on the actual place I'm playing etc.
I remember seeing Flea's Modulus having the knobs held with tape at particular positions, presumably for the same reason.

[mcnach]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1419973381' post='2644558']
Isn't it the case that an active bass also buffers the signal so you don't need to worry about long guitar cables or cable capacitance which can affect the tone from a passive bass.
[/quote]

That's also true. But the way I see it is if you always play with the same type/length cables... the sound you get is the sound you get. If it sounds the way it does because it's lost some high frequency content through the cable, it doesn't matter that much, as long as it sounds good.
But it's worth keeping that in mind, especially if you start noticing inconsistencies when playing through different setups.

[mcnach]

when people say "why do I need active EQ on the bass, if I already have it on the amp, or on a pedal", you have to also consider not all EQ sound the same. They operate differently. Just like not all overdrive pedals sound the same, not all EQ circuits work the same way. So sometimes it's not where you have it, but simply how it sounds.

[Delberthot]

I've gone from an EMG active PJ system with 2 band eq to just the P pickup with a passive tone control and volume. I found that I never used the J pickup ever and had the EQ set flat.

I just love the combination of EMG P pickup with the Chromes. I only use the volume when using a pick

[chrisanthony1211]

Personally I much prefer the simplicity of a passive bass, put an active bass in my hands and I'm forever twiddling with knobs and never happy, bass up, mid cut, treble boost, bass boost, mid boost, no cut, no boost, no cut, neck pick up, brigde pick up, balanced, neck bridge, neck, bridge, mid cut, bass cut, boost, cut, boost cut, neck, bridge, neck, bridge, mid, bass, treble, boost this, cut that, no, boost, cut, boost, cut...............aaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
That's why I currently have two Precisions and I'm very happy ��

Edited January 1, 2015 by chrisanthony1211

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1420103567' post='2645504']
Personally I much prefer the simplicity of a passive bass, put an active bass in my hands and I'm forever twiddling with knobs and never happy, bass up, mid cut, treble boost, bass boost, mid boost, no cut, no boost, no cut, neck pick up, brigde pick up, balanced, neck bridge, neck, bridge, mid cut, bass cut, boost, cut, boost cut, neck, bridge, neck, bridge, mid, bass, treble, boost this, cut that, no, boost, cut, boost, cut...............aaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
That's why I currently have two Precisions and I'm very happy ��
[/quote] ^ this, I had a stingray and also spent all my time twiddling without success to get the tone I wanted, now I've got P I just play it.

[chrisanthony1211]

I had the same, stingray HH, just way to many options for a simple bassist like myself, plug and play....ug..

[JTUK]

But I do think you would or should sit down and work out what the things do
and how you go about getting your sound. Otherwise, it is just the same as
forever tweaking your pedals... When I see people doing that, I get the imrpession that
they don't know what they want or how to get it.... A few sessions in the beginning
working on those things should eliminate a lot of that.
Some rooms are difficult but basically it is turn the amp on, plug in, listen and you are there
in a few minutes. Endless din at a soundcheck going through 'sounds' makes me think
the band doesn't quite know what they are looking for.

But... I do take the point about too many sound options on basses... I want a full default sound
with which I'll do most of my gig...and a simple rear pickup sound option ..
That's it... and that simple...ONCE you have put the time in beforehand getting the sound sorted. IMO.

[stingrayPete1977]

I think if you are used to spinning the tone pot on a P bass you can be overly adjusting the preamp, a little bit is all you need, a 2 eq Ray is similar to a P bass imo, set the bass to whereyou like it and its not overloading anything then use the treble pot as you would a tone pot, I had my treble cut on the bass totally!

That said I mainly used my passive Jazz last night with a behringer bdi21 in the fx loop for that channel and it sounded great!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420111365' post='2645591']
But I do think you would or should sit down and work out what the things do
and how you go about getting your sound. Otherwise, it is just the same as
forever tweaking your pedals... When I see people doing that, I get the imrpession that
they don't know what they want or how to get it.... A few sessions in the beginning
working on those things should eliminate a lot of that.
Some rooms are difficult but basically it is turn the amp on, plug in, listen and you are there
in a few minutes. Endless din at a soundcheck going through 'sounds' makes me think
the band doesn't quite know what they are looking for.

But... I do take the point about too many sound options on basses... I want a full default sound
with which I'll do most of my gig...and a simple rear pickup sound option ..
That's it... and that simple...ONCE you have put the time in beforehand getting the sound sorted. IMO.
[/quote]
I agree a bad workman and all that

[edpirie]

Maybe this is Fender specific but I find their active Ps and particularly Js have a very different fundamental sound to passives. Not something that can be replicated by amp or pedal EQ. In fact I wanted to get a bit of the pumped up active J sound for a couple of tracks with my passive J and bought a Sadowsky pre pedal for the purpose but it didn't get close. The comment above about a more 'compressed' sound with active circuitry is interesting, maybe that's the difference I'm hearing... I'd appreciate any insight into this.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='uk_lefty' timestamp='1419976591' post='2644612']
It's the volume control on a passive bass that I don't understand!!!
[/quote]
when used with the input of a valve amp the volume knob has the ability to change the tone as well I think.
[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420111365' post='2645591']
But I do think you would or should sit down and work out what the things do
and how you go about getting your sound. Otherwise, it is just the same as
forever tweaking your pedals... When I see people doing that, I get the imrpession that
they don't know what they want or how to get it.... A few sessions in the beginning
working on those things should eliminate a lot of that.
[/quote] this.
My Streamer has an ACG preamp in it. 8 Knobs to fiddle! It takes a while to get to the point where you know what you are listening for and just change it without thinking.... it takes longer to get to the point where you set and forget....

[discreet]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1420111414' post='2645592']
I think if you are used to spinning the tone pot on a P bass you can be overly adjusting the preamp, a little bit is all you need...
[/quote]

This. The first onboard I had experience of was an Audere J3Z which was very interesting, but the TonePump in my Euro is another kettle of fish altogether. Just small incremental changes can make a huge difference and this takes getting used to. But once you're in the 'tone zone' then it's easy to make almost instinctive parameter adjustments to change sounds and/or compensate for different situations and I'm enjoying the versatility that this offers... don't think I'd go back to a passive bass, but of course I reserve the right to change my mind...

[chrisanthony1211]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that there is a problem with active basses, the problem is me and active basses! The stingray I had, had a 3 band eq, and 5 options for pick up positions! I'm an habitual tweaker and it would drive me mad, even when I was happy with my sound!!!

[chris_b]

[quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1420103567' post='2645504']
Personally I much prefer the simplicity of a passive bass, put an active bass in my hands and I'm forever twiddling with knobs and never happy,
[/quote]

I'd say you've played the wrong active basses.

I don't believe that you'll get a better sound out of an active bass the more you tweak the controls.

IMO, the sound is not in the electrics, it's in the instrument and you should only plug a bass in after you've played it acoustically. If it sounds good unplugged then you'll easily "get your sound" by making minimal EQ adjustments.

I hardly ever tweak my basses during a gig, and probably won't do much during the sound check either.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Ben Jamin' timestamp='1419978863' post='2644635']
I was always under the impression that active basses were developed for busy session musicians who would bypass amp/pedals and plug directly into the desk/DI - such as Marcus Miller etc. Gives you a lot of control in a simple set-up.
[/quote]

The channel EQ (or indeed outboard rack EQ) on a desk in a decent studio will far outperform anything designed to be crammed into the control cavity of a bass and powered by a 9V battery.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1420028917' post='2644958']
when people say "why do I need active EQ on the bass, if I already have it on the amp, or on a pedal", you have to also consider not all EQ sound the same. They operate differently. Just like not all overdrive pedals sound the same, not all EQ circuits work the same way. So sometimes it's not where you have it, but simply how it sounds.
[/quote]

But very few active circuits are actually tailor to specifically match the rest of the bass they are fitted in. Only a few companies like Music Man and Wal offer a true complete electronics package where the active electronics are designed to complement the pickups and their position relative to the speaking length of the strings. Most of the time its simply a generic 2 or 3-band circuit bunged into the instrument with little regard for the type and placement of the pickups.

Edited January 1, 2015 by BigRedX

[BigRedX]

I have basses with both active and passive tone controls. While I find the volume and pickup blend controls on a good active circuit useful, the controls on my amp do tone shaping far more effectively than anything that can be fitted into a bass.

I never touch the controls while I'm playing because I'm too busy actually playing. Anything that does need altering can be done at the amp between songs although I've found very few situations where I've had to make any tonal adjustments mid-set when I'm using my rig.

I have a BassPod which I use with other people's rigs and I just bypass or set the amp tone controls to their mid position and use my programmed sounds on the Pod. If the amp has a very pronounced "voice" I'll use its tone controls to dial it out as much of it as possible.

What I do find useful on an instrument is the ability to apply tone shaping to each pickup individually (something very few on board pre-amps offer) but even then it's generally set and forget and any further control is done with the pickup selector/blend control.

[Ben Jamin]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1420132916' post='2645985']
The channel EQ (or indeed outboard rack EQ) on a desk in a decent studio will far outperform anything designed to be crammed into the control cavity of a bass and powered by a 9V battery.
[/quote]

Yes, but then that would apply to the EQ on most bass amps too. If you can get the sound right at source, the engineer shouldn't need to do much work in post. A little bit of EQ and compression to make it sit in the mix is really all you want to be doing. Active pre-amps give you the fundamental tone-shaping tools of a bass amp but you can plug straight into the desk. In the case of MM, for example, he can accentuate his scooped Jazz sound with the 2-band EQ. Works live for the same reasons.

That's what I've always thought the idea for active pre-amps was about, anyway!

[Brother Jones]

I think there's some confusion here between an active OBP and active pups. The latter are there because the response curve of most passive pups is pretty bad. A passive pup uses a lot of coil windings to generate a useable signal, and the more windings there are, the more the treble response drops off. Active pups have many fewer coil windings so as to get a flatter response, and use on board power and a mini preamp to boost the output. That doesn't require an OBP.

There's been something of a move against active OBP basses from purists like Paul Weller (who banned Yolanda from using them). Personally I like them for live work, as they help Jazzes cut through more, but prefer passive, or active pups for recording.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Brother Jones' timestamp='1420151575' post='2646237']
There's been something of a move against active OBP basses from purists like Paul Weller (who banned Yolanda from using them). Personally I like them for live work, as they help Jazzes cut through more, but prefer passive, or active pups for recording.
[/quote]
one man's purist is another's luddite....
I guess you've also got someone like Jonas Hellborg sticking a 27v transformer driving preamp in his.... so it's a question of how well engineered is the thing, some are a lot better than others.

[Brother Jones]

Yes of course. The purists/luddites have a thing about hearing the preamp, rather than the player and the instrument itself, which is an interesting point.

Some preamps are very well engineered. Musicman use the same capacitors as Naim put in their hifi amps, for example. However, others have a certain sizzle which can really impose itself, which is why I dislike the Sadowsky boost-only circuit.

[Marvin]

The basses i want just tend to be active. I don't fiddle with the onboard pre amp, I tend to leave it flat and adjust my eq unit in my rack. Very occasionally I'll tweak the OBP, maybe for a little treble boost during a section of a song but that's it.

[stingrayPete1977]

People banning active basses, I'm guessing five strings are out too with people like that? Well I'm banning haircuts for twenty year Olds in my band if you are over forty then, there are some idiots out there.

[JTUK]

Some pre amps have 12 or 15db boost...that is a lot of noise if you get it wrong and some of the treble frequencies
are un-usable, IMO< as would be the bass, come to think of it.
I don't have mine far away from the centre indents ( bass tends to be boost only ) but it is the mid sweep that is the most usable
to me...
I like the basses passive so I try not to have the pre amp get too far away from that.

[Woodinblack]

All this way through the thread and no-one has mentioned the actual reason for active pickups in the first place. The point of an active is that it gives you enough power to drive a low impedance signal path from your bass to the amp which means that the cable will pick up less injected noise, assuming that the amplifier has a low impedance input which most have (and that is what the active / passive switch does on amps).
Anything else, bass / treble, greater volume etc are just effects which you can do because you have a battery but as you say, you can do anywhere.