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Guest Jecklin

amplifiers without fans

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The early AER amp one's used a heatsink and no fan, these things are immense, mine was a 2008 version, huge portability and a sound that just has no right to come out of a box that size, only down side is that your still looking at about £600 to pick an old one up, that may seem a lot for a 200watt single 10 inch speaker combo, but you won't think so once you've heard it! You get what you pay for..

Edited by chrisanthony1211

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[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1420033018' post='2645009']
ive had alot of amps but even ones with loud fans like the Aguilar db750 or ampeg svt pro 8 never were so loud that as soon as anyone was playing the noise couldnt be heard.

and more and more amps have the heat sensitive fans now so only come on when needed.

andy
[/quote]

Every fan is too loud if it's just bass and clarinet!

Lots of space in classical music - fan noise really kills the mood.

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[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1420136994' post='2646035']
Every fan is too loud if it's just bass and clarinet!

Lots of space in classical music - fan noise really kills the mood.
[/quote]

Yep, and the same thing holds true for many of my jazz gigs without drums as well. For me, fan = no sale. Quite a few of the current crop of Class D power modules work flawlessly with just convection cooling as long as proper attention is paid to heat sink specification, but fans are cheap and small and effective heat sinks usually are not.

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I've been investigating this issue for my own use.

I have discovered that the Demeter Minnie VTBP head has completely passive cooling - no fans

[url="http://www.bassgear.co.uk/product/demeter-minnie-vtbp-m-800d-amp/"]http://www.bassgear....tbp-m-800d-amp/[/url]

The poweramp alone does have a fan with an off switch for recording - not sure if that would be a good idea to leave off for an entire gig though.

Edited by fretmeister

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Get a nice old valve amp. None of the numerous older amps I've had have ever had fans. Never needed a fan, always sounded great.
I've even used my Fender Blues Jnr guitar amp for bass and it works v well indeed as a quiet bass amp....and no fan.

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so I guess going for a clean sound? class D stuff tends to run cooler than older stuff so might be worth looking that way? A lot of it is going to have a fan built in as an insurance though, I guess as we expect smaller and smaller amps suddenly cooling becomes an issue again. - But how much power do you actually need? AER stuff for acoustic based stuff might be good (costly though)

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[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1420219066' post='2646826']
I've been investigating this issue for my own use.

I have discovered that the Demeter Minnie VTBP head has completely passive cooling - no fans

[url="http://www.bassgear.co.uk/product/demeter-minnie-vtbp-m-800d-amp/"]http://www.bassgear....tbp-m-800d-amp/[/url][/quote]

You might want to look through the Talkbass threads on that amp, thermal issues have been mentioned at least a few times. The latest pics I've seen seem to show a bigger heatsink, so hopefully it's all sorted by now. I'm really looking forward to checking one out, but it's likely to be a few months before that happens.

When I built my own amp last year it was intended just for practice or very low key EUB jazz gigs. At least one very experienced engineer told me I needed to use a fan, but he also admitted to having no experience with the particular ICE module I used, which is not common in bass amps at all, and not the one Demeter uses (the one I used is bigger and more expensive, intended for pro PA duty, and requires more outboard parts). I added some heatsinking just to play it safe, and have ended up using this amp in a few fairly loud rock situations with no problems so far.

Edited by Passinwind

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I've owned a Crown 2k XLS class D for a couple of years (roughly) and I've never had the inbuilt fan cut in yet, not that I've noticed. As other posters have said, valve amps tend not to have fans - I've had Marshall (plexi), Ormat & Matamp, none of which had blowers, nor needed them (though the big Ormats did get a bit warm towards the end of the night).I recently had my tech replace the jump-jet fan on my Marshall twin100 chassis with three slower, quieter (& more efficient) units.........you pays yer money..........

:)

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[quote name='Passinwind' timestamp='1420306203' post='2647881']


You might want to look through the Talkbass threads on that amp, thermal issues have been mentioned at least a few times. The latest pics I've seen seem to show a bigger heatsink, so hopefully it's all sorted by now. I'm really looking forward to checking one out, but it's likely to be a few months before that happens.

When I built my own amp last year it was intended just for practice or very low key EUB jazz gigs. At least one very experienced engineer told me I needed to use a fan, but he also admitted to having no experience with the particular ICE module I used, which is not common in bass amps at all, and not the one Demeter uses (the one I used is bigger and more expensive, intended for pro PA duty, and requires more outboard parts). I added some heatsinking just to play it safe, and have ended up using this amp in a few fairly loud rock situations with no problems so far.
[/quote]

The new Demeters are in a bigger chassis too, as well as the bigger heat sink.

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Heads without a Fan:

Fender Bassman 300 Pro aka Sunn 300T
Gallien Krueger 400 RB (the old ones)
Ashdown LB30
Ashdown CTM100
EBS T90

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Guest Jecklin

Blimey Dissa! :)

Any those would empty the venues I play in ha ha!

I could probably get away with an Ashdown CTM15, but not sure it is a clean enough sound.


Thanks everyone for comments.
I'm demoing a few Phil Jones combos soon and as long as all the reported issues with those are either remedied or manageable they'll probably be the best bet.

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The Demeter Minnie I have, a Demeter – Minnie VTBP-M-800D Amp and Pre, without the DI has a massive heat sink sited just behind the two Valves of the Pre section clearly seen from the front of the Amp on the chassis.

Works in complete silence from an operational point of view, as does the PJB Double Four.

Horses for courses I guess.

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[quote name='Jecklin' timestamp='1420563030' post='2650681']
Blimey Dissa! :)

Any those would empty the venues I play in ha ha!

I could probably get away with an Ashdown CTM15, but not sure it is a clean enough sound.


Thanks everyone for comments.
I'm demoing a few Phil Jones combos soon and as long as all the reported issues with those are either remedied or manageable they'll probably be the best bet.
[/quote]

Try to get a used Ashdown Litte Bastard. Sometime they are for about [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]£300 on the market. The Little Bastards has a wonderful vintage tone and they can be loud and clean enough for playing in a band.[/font][/color]

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Fans don't have to be noisy. The problem is that to keep costs down, cheap fans are often fitted to commercial amplifiers.

Fans are electromechanical devices and hence less reliable than electronic components. However the trick is to chose a fan that is higher voltage than the standard fit and run it at the lower voltage.

This means tha fan will run slower and will last longer. It will not move as much air as. If it were run at rated voltage but it will be much quieter and more reliable.

Of course the other problem is that many lower power also have insufficient heatsinks.

Valve amps do get round most of theses problems BUT many are very noisy/hissy, so you cannot just assume that valves are the magic bullet.

Edited by Chienmortbb

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xgsjx beat me to it. I thought this thread was about amps nobody likes...

As other say, there are amps with heat sink/convection cooling. However, they tend not to like being cased - can get too warm, unless they are low powered. Better amps have quieter fans - my EBS fan is very quiet.

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Another vote for the Little Bastard, no fan no hiss & beautiful valve tone all day every day :)

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[quote name='disssa' timestamp='1420655634' post='2651823']
The fan of a Genz Benz Streamliner is nearly noiseless...
[/quote]
& here's me thinking they were reliable too! :P

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

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[quote name='Passinwind' timestamp='1420306203' post='2647881']
The the one I used is bigger and more expensive, intended for pro PA duty, and requires more outboard parts
[/quote]

Hypex?

Edited by owen

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[quote name='owen' timestamp='1420717424' post='2652437']
Hypex?
[/quote]

Nope, ICE 500ASP. [url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/a-diy-500-watt-bass-head.1061473/#post-15624273"]Build thread here[/url].

I plan on doing a Hypex build eventually though, unless I end up just cutting to the chase and doing my own power module.

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