Not for The Casual Bass Guitarist

[Skol303]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1411440656' post='2559530'][list]
[*][size=3][font=Arial]The person that tells you how much their into music, but in fact their connection to music doesn't extend much beyond listening to music on the car radio.[/font][/size]
[/list][list]
[*][size=3][font=Arial]Or your in a conversation they learn your in a band and feel the need to ask where your playing so they can come see you. This person generally has not gone to see a live rock band anywhere in the last 20 years or more. They have no real intention on coming out to see your band, but for some reason feel the need to patronize you.[/font][/size]
[/list]
[/quote]


In response to Blue's original post I'd say that...

The person who says they're "into music" but [i]only[/i] listens to it on their car radio can still be "into" music. It can still play a big part in their lives and sway their emotions; it can leave them humming a tune all day. I don't see why it's patronising to musicians for someone to say that's how they enjoy music. In fact, that's probably how the majority of people enjoy music. The key word being [i]"enjoy"[/i]

The person who asks about your next gig, but probably won't come along, is most likely just scratching around for conversation - and probably have good intentions in doing so. People who have regular jobs (like me!) can sometimes be a little lost for words when chatting with someone whose day job is different, because they don't have the usual points of reference (or 'conversation starters') that they're familiar with. Anyone who works in office has an immediate point of reference with someone else who does the same - no matter whether their actual jobs are different. Faced with a musician, I imagine most people will ask 1) what instrument do you play? 2) are you in a band? 3) when is your next gig?... in that order. That's not being patronising, it's just someone trying to make conversation about somerthing that's unfamiliar to them.

So in short: don't sweat it! All's good

Edited September 23, 2014 by Skol303

[Geek99]

[quote name='Bolo' timestamp='1411467980' post='2559743']
It's not any different for a .net (or any other) code monkey. Usually they'll just say 'I'm in i.t.' and people relate 'ooh I have a computer! Fun isn't it.'
[/quote]
Yep - Java monkeys get this also
My computer is running really slow..,,

[Lozz196]

I get what Blue means, or at least I think I do. At work, aside from one guy who is also in a band, although many state they love music, going to see a band for them means a festival. Very few would actually go and see a specific band that they liked in a concert just by that band. And fewer will go and watch local bands play. Yet all of them will happily listen to the radio at work, and moan if it`s not switched on. Do they love music, well just because they don`t play or go and see bands doesn`t mean they don`t love listening to it, but apart from that they don`t seem to have any interest in anything else musically related. I would say their love is as consumers, ours is as performers, it`s just different.

[jazzyvee]

What frustrates me is when I put a gig up on Facebook and people indicate that they are coming to the gig and you know full well the person does not live anywhere close enough to attend the gig so what's the point of then saying you will go to the gig. Maybe some people just want to be seen to be supportive but not with bums on seats.

[timmo]

I I love music, always have. I like long car journeys on my own, so i can listen to my CD`s in peace. I think learning and playing an instrument gives a different perspective though. I always liked Jamiroquai, now they sound even better with the bassline. Similarly, i hate Michael Jackson`s stuff, but i realise how good the bass is on some of his tracks. I hate jazz, but i can listen to it for a bit. I realise how much skill you need to be a top player, so i appreciate it more. So i guess playing an instrument can give a better insight to a piece. You should give the car radio listener a bit more slack, because most appreciate music, they just may listen to it differently

[TheGreek]

I can relate to what the OP is saying - but aren't most people passionate about something which others would be bored sh1less about??

A friend of mine is passionate about all of his hobbies - till he gets bored with it and moves onto something else - golf, fishing, decks, bikes - he's been through them all. Currently it's his Subaru WRX - buying this and that part, tuning this, extra power that....bores me shitless but it takes all sorts...

Passion comes in all shapes and forms..just because it's not the same as yours doesn't mean it's not relevant.

I still empathise with you though..

[JapanAxe]

We're well overdue for some more input from Blue on this. In the meantime, music is my consuming passion, but for various practical reasons I now mainly listen to music on my iPod in the car!

[blue]

[quote name='gadgie' timestamp='1411451756' post='2559554']
Sorry but I think your post is a little off the mark. You think you can only be 'in to music' if you play it? What's wrong with listening to music in the car? It might be all they can afford at the time, and they need the car to get to or from work.....or even part of their work.
In regards someone saying they would like to come to see you play. They might have other commitments on the night and not be able to get there.......it doesn't mean they are patronizing you. Just my opinion of course
[/quote]

Or it could be they grew up in culturally and or musically deprived environment and have never had any real connection to the arts. I grew up financially deprived, but I don't patronize the wealthy, rich or the well off.

For me, music started and hit me at a young age (4 or 5 years old). I distinctly remember being in my high chair (baby chair) in the kitchen where my Mom would have the Black radio station on and we were all grooving to Ray Charles in the late 50s.

My point,I just needed to vent about any of us being patronized.

Blue

Edited September 23, 2014 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1411487669' post='2559981']
I I love music, always have. I like long car journeys on my own, so i can listen to my CD`s in peace. I think learning and playing an instrument gives a different perspective though. I always liked Jamiroquai, now they sound even better with the bassline. Similarly, i hate Michael Jackson`s stuff, but i realise how good the bass is on some of his tracks. I hate jazz, but i can listen to it for a bit. I realise how much skill you need to be a top player, so i appreciate it more. So i guess playing an instrument can give a better insight to a piece. You should give the car radio listener a bit more slack, because most appreciate music, they just may listen to it differently
[/quote]

I get where some of you are coming from. I guess I have a hard time qualifying listening to music on the car radio as being into music.

Funny, personally I never listen to music in my car. I listen to talk radio, usually politics, but I would never tell anyone or a politician I'm into politics.

Blue

[xilddx]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1411495788' post='2560096']
Or it could be they grew up in culturally and or musically deprived environment and have never had any real connection to the arts. I grew up financially deprived, but I don't patronize the wealthy, rich or the well off.

For me, music started and hit me at a young age (4 or 5 years old). I distinctly remember being in my high chair (baby chair) in the kitchen where my Mom would have the Black radio station on and we were all grooving to Ray Charles in the late 50s.

My point,I just needed to vent about being patronized.

Blue
[/quote]

So the real problem is that perfectly nice people talk to you, and YOU feel patronised because you don't understand where they are coming from and make assumptions about them. Then you judge them as ignorant and patronising because they are not on your musical 'level. Perhaps it's actually YOU being patronising. That's not a nice way to be.

You say you have no hobbies, no family, no other real interests. So let me ask you, what on earth are you saying through your music? Most of the great musicians I know and know of, a few of whom I've had the great pleasure of playing with, can hold conversations on a wide variety of subjects, and have wide interests, they have strong opinions about things OTHER than music. Music is almost never discussed in the pub or at the dinner table. Their music is the channelling of their energies. If their energies are only music and f***ing, their music will most likely be two dimensional. Most of the great musicians obsessed with music have interests and passions outside of music and sex, that where the music comes from.

How would you feel if you went and said hello to your bass hero if you have one, how would you feel if she went off and moaned about the sh*t and dumb questions these amateur musicians come out with. What if you read that on a bass forum somewhere? How would that make you feel?

[leftybassman392]

I'm much too nice to actually say this, but I frequent a forum where there are a lot of people who take pride in 'telling it like it is' (no, not BC! ) and I rather suspect that one or two of those people would be using words like 'precious' and 'pompous' by now. As I said though, I wouldn't say that because I do share your passion. At one time or another I have[list]

[*]owned my own recording studio (albeit a small one) that I used to record my own music, my bands' music, and the music of a range of people from friends to total strangers;
[*]performed in bands playing everything from cocktail jazz to hairy-arsed punk;
[*]taught others to do various combinations of the above, ranging in aptitude from massively skillful and hugely talented to the exact opposite of the aforementioned.
[/list]

However, it has never occurred to me to criticise people for turning up to one of may gigs and engaging me in musical conversation, even if they clearly don't know a Phrygian scale from a fridge-freezer. If I could offer a bit of old-fart advice, I'd suggest that you might want to lighten up a bit.

Edited September 23, 2014 by leftybassman392

[xilddx]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1411498607' post='2560127']
I'm much too nice to actually say this, but I frequent a forum where there are a lot of people who take pride in 'telling it like it is' (no, not BC! ) and I rather suspect that one or two of those people would be using words like 'precious' and 'pompous' by now. As I said though, I wouldn't say that because I do share your passion. At one time or another I have[list]
[*]played in numerous bands across a range of styles and a variety of instruments;
[*]owned my own recording studio (albeit a small one) that I used to record my own music, my bands' music, and the music of a range of people from friends to total strangers;
[*]performed in bands playing everything from cocktail jazz to hairy-arsed punk;
[*]taught others to do various combinations of the above, ranging in aptitude from massively skillful and hugely talented to the exact opposite of the aforementioned.
[/list]
However, it has never occurred to me to criticise people for turning up to one of may gigs and engaging me in musical conversation, even if they clearly don't know a Phrygian scale from a fridge-freezer. If I could offer a bit of old-fart advice, I'd suggest that you might want to lighten up a bit.
[/quote]

Word.

[arthurhenry]

Yes, grab a beer from the Phrygian and relax.

[xilddx]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1411499704' post='2560150']
Yes, grab a beer from the Phrygian and relax.
[/quote]

Oh man, you didn't need the 'and' ! Top pun nevertheless

[Doddy]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1411495788' post='2560096']


Or it could be they grew up in culturaly and or musically deprived environment and have never had any real connection to the arts. I grew up financially deprived, but I don't patronize the wealthy, rich or the well off.

For me, music started and hit me at a young age (4 or 5 years old). I distinctly remember being in my high chair (baby chair) in the kitchen where my Mom would have the Black radio station on and we were all grooving to Ray Charles in the late 50s.

My point,I just needed to vent about any of us being patronized.

Blue
[/quote]

It's got nothing to do with being culturally or musically deprived.It has everything to do with people liking different things.
Just because someone likes listening to mainstream radio and not more obscure bands doesn't mean that they don't
enjoy music.That's like saying that Man Utd fans aren't really in to football because they don't check out the lower
leagues.
I also don't think it matters how old you are when you get turned on to music. It might happen when you are young, or it might happen when you are a bit older, but if it happens...great.Just because you maybe didn't listen to much when you were young doesn't mean you're culturally deprived. Some people enjoy music, others like football more-it's just the way it is.
I don't feel like people are patronising when they ask me about my job.I think it's more patronising to assume that they are.

[skankdelvar]

It's funny, because in some ways Blue and Xildxx seem as alike as two peas in a pod; firstly in their fervent embrace of music as a central component of their existence and secondly as pleasant, modest, self-deprecating chaps with whom I'd cheerfully hoist a beer or two.

Where they may perhaps vary - as might many of us - is their perception of the Terpsikhorean art as it might engage or mobilise others. One's own position may colour one's views yet it is there are certain objectively measurable states.

For example, a tragic minority of humanity is (figuratively) deaf to music - I instance the good lady wife, whose sole reaction to anything I've ever played was to assume a blank expression and observe 'But it all sounds the same', except on the occasion that I first deployed the EHX B9 Organ Machine pedal when she howled with appreciative laughter.

Not that I love her any the less, of course.

Others profess to be music lovers yet scrutiny reveals otherwise. For example: a majority of women aged over 25 who claim to 'like' music are merely adherents of Abba and / or the oeuvre of Mr Mick 'Simply Red' Hucknall. Any other artist provokes bouts of projectile vomiting.

Then there are those who 'know their music'; more often than not they are white middle-aged men who do not play an instrument but can reel off a list of Mr Brian Jones' daily activities from 1961 to 1968 or expound at length on the specific harmonic plangencies of The Incredible String Band's output while a tear trickles down their corrugated cheek.

All of this diversity of engagement with so simple a form while never laying fingertip to string. Frankly, it is a miracle.

And it could be so much worse. A good friend is a confirmed apiarist (bee-keeper in normal terms). He confides that most 'civilians' reactions on learning of his passion is to ask him:[list=1]
[*]Is it difficult?
[*]Do you get stung a lot?
[*]Have you any honey to spare?
[*]I must be going now.
[/list]
Such is his lot. We should give thanks for ours.

Edited September 23, 2014 by skankdelvar

[blue]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1411500030' post='2560164']
It's got nothing to do with being culturally or musically deprived.It has everything to do with people liking different things.
Just because someone likes listening to mainstream radio and not more obscure bands doesn't mean that they don't
enjoy music.That's like saying that Man Utd fans aren't really in to football because they don't check out the lower
leagues.
I also don't think it matters how old you are when you get turned on to music. It might happen when you are young, or it might happen when you are a bit older, but if it happens...great.Just because you maybe didn't listen to much when you were young doesn't mean you're culturally deprived. Some people enjoy music, others like football more-it's just the way it is.
I don't feel like people are patronising when they ask me about my job.I think it's more patronising to assume that they are.
[/quote]

Maybe it's not that complex. Now that I think about it it might be as simple as; I don't like being patronized.

Patronizing, to me, would be the person asking you about your job and you know instinctively he/she has know interest in your job or hearing about it.

And I guess terms like enjoying music vs into music are up in the air. The phrase, [i]"I'm into listening to and enjoying music while I'm driving my car" [/i]makes sense. But do they understand or care about what it's like to stand on your feet and play and sing for 4 hours into the early am? I would say very few do and why should they.

Blue

Edited September 23, 2014 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1411500030' post='2560164']

It has everything to do with people liking different things.[/quote]

True and I am as guilty as anyone else. I listen, I don't say much but "oh my lucky stars" I am not interested in my friend rambling on and on about the work he's doing on his motorcycles.

Blue

[xilddx]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1411500621' post='2560181']
It's funny, because in some ways Blue and Xildxx seem as alike as two peas in a pod; firstly in their fervent embrace of music as a central component of their existence and secondly as pleasant, modest, self-deprecating chaps with whom I'd cheerfully hoist a beer or two.

Where they may perhaps vary - as might many of us - is their perception of the Terpsikhorean art as it might engage or mobilise others. One's own position may colour one's views yet it is there are certain objectively measurable states.

For example, a tragic minority of humanity is (figuratively) deaf to music - I instance the good lady wife, whose sole reaction to anything I've ever played was to assume a blank expression and observe 'But it all sounds the same', except on the occasion that I first deployed the EHX B9 Organ Machine pedal when she howled with appreciative laughter.

Not that I love her any the less, of course.

Others profess to be music lovers yet scrutiny reveals otherwise. For example: a majority of women aged over 25 who claim to 'like' music are merely adherents of Abba and / or the oeuvre of Mr Mick 'Simply Red' Hucknall. Any other artist provokes bouts of projectile vomiting.

Then there are those who 'know their music'; more often than not they are white middle-aged men who do not play an instrument but can reel off a list of Mr Brian Jones' daily activities from 1961 to 1968 or expound at length on the specific harmonic plangencies of The Incredible String Band's output while a tear trickles down their corrugated cheek.

All of this diversity of engagement with so simple a form while never laying fingertip to string. Frankly, it is a miracle.

And it could be so much worse. A good friend is a confirmed apiarist (bee-keeper in normal terms). He confides that most 'civilians' reactions on learning of his passion is to ask him:[list=1]
[*]Is it difficult?
[*]Do you get stung a lot?
[*]Have you any honey to spare?
[*]I must be going now.
[/list]
Such is his lot. We should give thanks for ours.
[/quote]

[blue]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1411468618' post='2559754']
In response to Blue's original post I'd say that...

The person who says they're "into music" but [i]only[/i] listens to it on their car radio can still be "into" music. It can still play a big part in their lives and sway their emotions; it can leave them humming a tune all day. I don't see why it's patronising to musicians for someone to say that's how they enjoy music. In fact, that's probably how the majority of people enjoy music. The key word being [i]"enjoy"[/i]

The person who asks about your next gig, but probably won't come along, is most likely just scratching around for conversation - and probably have good intentions in doing so. People who have regular jobs (like me!) can sometimes be a little lost for words when chatting with someone whose day job is different, because they don't have the usual points of reference (or 'conversation starters') that they're familiar with. Anyone who works in office has an immediate point of reference with someone else who does the same - no matter whether their actual jobs are different. Faced with a musician, I imagine most people will ask 1) what instrument do you play? 2) are you in a band? 3) when is your next gig?... in that order. That's not being patronising, it's just someone trying to make conversation about somerthing that's unfamiliar to them.

So in short: don't sweat it! All's good
[/quote]

I would say you are a nice person and see the best in people.I'm still working on that.

Blue

[flyfisher]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1411500733' post='2560184']
Patronizing, to me, would be the person asking you about your job and you know instinctively he/she has know interest in your job or hearing about it.
[/quote]

Or telling someone to "Have a nice day" perhaps?


I wonder if we've struck the tip of a 'cultural differences' iceberg with this topic?

If the above example is patronising, what would you make of the commonly used and friendly greeting "Hello, how are you?" knowing that the greeter really doesn't want to engage in long drawn out details about how you've ricked your back and are having trouble walking without severe jabbing pain but will be visiting the doctor later today and hopefully he'll be able to prescribe something to ease the pain.

In such circumstances, social etiquette demands that the correct answer is "Fine thanks, how are you?", which requires no more demanding a reply before moving on to other things. Nothing patronising about any of it.

Edited September 23, 2014 by flyfisher

[FinnDave]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1411500733' post='2560184']

Patronizing, to me, would be the person asking you about your job and you know instinctively he/she has know interest in your job or hearing about it.

Blue
[/quote]

That's not being patronising, that is an attempt to connect with you by using polite conversation.

[Highfox]

I thought I had some idea where this was going this morning, now I'm lost!
I like to see the good in everyone.

[timmo]

I guess I patronise my wife everyday when she moans about her day at work. I have no idea what she is talking about,but she had been on her feet for longer than 4 hours.

I imagine 99% of us would be happy being on our feet for 4 hours doing something we loved.if you aren't happy being on your feet,why do it. Having never been in a band, I would imagine it would be nice to have played to a crowd,and have an appreciative punter wanting to have a quick chat,as long as they aren't being a pain.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1411500733' post='2560184']
Patronizing, to me, would be the person asking you about your job and you know instinctively he/she has know interest in your job or hearing about it.
[/quote]

I may have identified the nub of the problem; it is that the OP and many of the respondents are culturally cross-purposed.

In the UK it is entirely normal and expected that two strangers upon meeting will ask questions of each other without the slightest interest in the other's answer. On such occasions it is a facet of the British character that one only hears what oneself is saying; what the other person says is a sort of blurred mumbling. We are not remotely interested in the other person - [i]and everybody knows this[/i].

Consequently, an absence of interest is regarded as perfectly normal. Were another party to express fervent curiosity or to deploy penetrating follow-up questions we would most of us edge warily towards the door. It's like the 'sitting on the subway and avoiding each others' eyes' thing that we Brits do so well, yet which attracts bafflement from the Continental races, accustomed as they are to splitting a bottle of wine with their fellow passngers and - perhaps - swapping items of livestock, goats, chickens, etc.

It has been my experience that other members of the Anglosphere conduct social intercourse in very different ways from the inhabitants of the Mother Country. For example, Australians wait politely for the end of one's sentence whereas Brits talk over each other as a matter of course.

In England none of us are really interested in each others pursuits and don't mind showing it. Perhaps it is different in the US where inquiries of this nature are customarily motivated by genuine curiosity and fellow-feeling. In such circumstances it would be the case that 'false interest' might be correctly be considered a grave solecism.

I can see Mr Blue's point and would urge we all do likewise, mindful that such differences as may exist might be exacerbated by unfeeling incomprehension.

In other words, where Blue comes from it might very much be the case that discourse of this kind is - indeed - patronizing.

Edited September 23, 2014 by skankdelvar