stingraybassman Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) Can't find much on this subject, so I thought it might be interesting to get opinions from BCers on the value (both financially and importance) placed on the Logo and Artwork designs for your bands. I'm a full time designer. I think branding is hugely important as a general point whatever the product is; however I see a lot of bands with "DIY" artworks and logos that don't do them justice. I should add; I am being asked more and more to do logo design for unsigned bands I know. I wondered what you guys feel is reasonable to charge a band. Edited May 20, 2014 by stingraybassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Interesting question, I've never really thought about it! Potentially a band's logo, if they become famous, could be worth millions! But nobody would be willing to pay anywhere near that as a startup band.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I think the whole marketing and image of artwork and logos, even when we are talking about music gear, is quite significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I think the brand as a whole for bands is important but I've never really been won over by a band because they have a nice logo but I'll accept that it can be a good thing to have one. Album artwork is quite important, or it at least needs to not be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfire666 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 i think artwork/logos are of paramount importance, as they say 1st impressions can make a big difference, especially in certain genres. im into my rock and metal, sometimes i see an awesome album cover and just have to hear the band, it can be disapointing if the music doesnt live up to the artwork though. i miss the days of double gatefold vinyl, not because of the vinyl i prefere cds, but the artwork has more impact and seems more tactile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Funnily enough, this popped up in the site's advertising banners: http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/simgad/17401429199458555377 You've got competition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfire666 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 on pricing I recently had some artwork done and im a picky sod. I had a digital painting done for my bands debut album, i paid 300eu for a piece that will cover 3 panels on a fold out digipack, im very happy with the piece and think that for the right designer/artist this was great value. on the other hand several people i know wouldn't dream of spending that much and were surprised when i told them how much i paid, however they all agreed it was money well spent when i showed them the piece. i think if someone likes the designs enough they will pay whatever you ask within reason so its important to have a substantial portfolio of similar work if you want to charge this kind of price so folk will have a proper idea of the quality of the finished result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visog Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I agree it's important - particularly if you/the band aren't the focal point and you want to transfer that focus to the music. As a Yes fan, although catastrophically '70s looking now, I loved their logo and the whole unfolding floating island Roger Dean work. By contrast, Rush changed their logos every album... but to me Hemispheres ancient script is my favourite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfire666 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Roger Dean and Rodney Mathews were awesome, tbh i think they started my obsession with album artwork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I think it's important - I have just put together something logo-ish for The Inevitable Teaspoons, tried so many fonts but nothing quite looked right. I'm not yet convinced that what I've picked is right, but it's the least wrong so far. Trying to get more gigs and I think it's important, if only so the promoter has something to put on the posters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 as a designer, it is important yes- more how you display yourself and publicity through everything you do. One of my pet hates is bands who set up their gear and then get some back drop or sign and prop it ontop of some amps with their half arsed logo on it and web link.... just looks unprofessional IMO. Pricing wise it depends- you get what you pay for in most cases! BUT Sometimes I wonder what bands are trying to do with their branding - who or what are they trying to appeal too? If they can't explain why they want a brand to me as their designer I doubt the brand with do them much good. I'm helping someone with the design of a music project at the moment, the music is great and part of me thinks: I can work and package it- but him as a musician's time would be better spent giving the music as much attention as I'm about to give the design, rather than worrying too much about it.... sometimes I've seen meticulous and brilliant design and a band who really needed to spend longer on honing their craft. oh another pet hate.... which conflicts slightly with the OP... good but local bands having uber polished corporate logo's and design. Screw it, if Punk taught you anything it should have been the value (aesthetically and otherwise) of DIY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) [quote name='stingraybassman' timestamp='1400599039' post='2455323'] I wondered what you guys feel is reasonable to charge a band. [/quote] Whatever you would charge anyone else for your time - you're not a charity. Maybe lower your quote if you think they'll be nice people and easy to work with and there's a chance of repeat work. Double it if they show signs of being a one-off PITA. Oh, and get the cash upfront because - sure as fate - [i]someone[/i] in the band (or one of their relatives) won't like the outcome and they'll have to 'have a band meeting about it' before they cough up. [color=#ffffff].[/color] Edited May 20, 2014 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingraybassman Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1400607461' post='2455436'] as a designer, it is important yes- more how you display yourself and publicity through everything you do. One of my pet hates is bands who set up their gear and then get some back drop or sign and prop it ontop of some amps with their half arsed logo on it and web link.... just looks unprofessional IMO. Pricing wise it depends- you get what you pay for in most cases! BUT Sometimes I wonder what bands are trying to do with their branding - who or what are they trying to appeal too? If they can't explain why they want a brand to me as their designer I doubt the brand with do them much good. I'm helping someone with the design of a music project at the moment, the music is great and part of me thinks: I can work and package it- but him as a musician's time would be better spent giving the music as much attention as I'm about to give the design, rather than worrying too much about it.... sometimes I've seen meticulous and brilliant design and a band who really needed to spend longer on honing their craft. oh another pet hate.... which conflicts slightly with the OP... good but local bands having uber polished corporate logo's and design. Screw it, if Punk taught you anything it should have been the value (aesthetically and otherwise) of DIY! [/quote] I think the digital age we live in now has changed design so much. Sites like da font mean people try to do things themselves. For me the typeface can tell so much of a story before you even read the words it makes up. It's as much of an artform as music. I totally agree about the over polished look Luke. Like you say, the biggest battle is usually deciding what the message is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=3]As it happens, my band just took delivery of a logo today, so we've put it on the Facebook page and various places. I put it in my sig here too, I suppose it all helps create that awareness. [/size][/font] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Oh, and of course, stickers to go on pub toilet cisterns, as is mandatory. [/size][/font] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Question - why do so many death metal bands feel that they have to conform to a certain logo type - namely totally illegible spiky writing? [/size][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Some years ago amongst artists that I knew I think a figure of £20 per hour was common to charge for your time and way back in about 2002 when I graduated in art one way to price a painting was £100 per square foot (I was making work 40" x 40"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1400625105' post='2455676'] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=3]As it happens, my band just took delivery of a logo today, so we've put it on the Facebook page and various places. I put it in my sig here too, I suppose it all helps create that awareness. [/size][/font] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Oh, and of course, stickers to go on pub toilet cisterns, as is mandatory. [/size][/font] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Question - why do so many death metal bands feel that they have to conform to a certain logo type - namely totally illegible spiky writing? [/size][/font] [/quote] forgive me if this is wrong - but I think that the style of spikeyness helps show what kind of band they are. I worked with a guy a few years back and when shown a flyer of a local metal fest. with lots of random bands he hadn't heard of was able to tell me what type of metal each band would be based on the type of spikeyness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Haha, fair enough - I just think there are other ways to show genre but stand out from the others at the same time. Also, some I can't even make out what they are called. Surely this is counterproductive, unless the band only want to appeal to a very small, select 'inside' crowd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) following on the stereotyping spiky thing... here is our band logo (designed by me) what type/genre of band are we? Edited May 21, 2014 by steve-bbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 to answer the OP original comments what i would charge would depend on several factors including but not limited to, their resources (financial), their expectations if they were a bunch of young upstarts with not much dosh but there was some serious potential for 'professional development' i would also consider offering the logo for free and retaining copyright but allowing them usage with a percentage type fee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I'd say you do 70s rock/pop Top 20 chart type material, the stuff you'd have seen on TOTP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 [quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1400658175' post='2455781'] I'd say you do 70s rock/pop Top 20 chart type material, the stuff you'd have seen on TOTP. [/quote] haha - yes there is a slight resemblance with the logo - wasnt planned i just trialled several fonts and that one seemed to suit best and got all our vote - not 70s though lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 License the artwork to them. That way if they make it big you get an ongoing royalty but you get less up front. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I'd charge £25 per hr, but you'd also be considerate of many many factors. If the band use it well, it will be money well spent and they could split the cost over many years of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1400659616' post='2455795'] I'd charge £25 per hr, but you'd also be considerate of many many factors. If the band use it well, it will be money well spent and they could split the cost over many years of use. [/quote] John what if it is a major client with big budget and expectations to match? if you didnt quote the job and pitch your tender accordingly you wouldnt be in with any chance big spenders like to feel the exclusivity of knowing that you are tailoring everything to 'their demands' and that includes not being charged the same flat rate as everybody else small spenders might even baulk at the idea of 25p/h and hint after whether you could knock something up for them in 20 mins! (at which point you suggest they go to talk to relatives kids doing A level art who wants to do it for their portfolio) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Sure, Steve, the first thing you'd do is secure the deal..if you wanted it. And there are the other considerations you'd factor in when weighing up the client. You'd also be thinking is it worth the hassle...to do it dirt cheap. You need to get a feel for what the client wants and is capable of.. I tend to take the money over a promise of future fees... but, having said that..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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