lurksalot Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1394964479' post='2397065'] Lots of people are using the terms "correct" and "incorrect" with regards playing with a pick. There is no definitive technique, but there are tried and (generally) trusted ones. Carol Kaye has being playing bass with a pick for fifty plus years and has never suffered from doing so. The problem with CTS and RSI is that they take a long time to show themselves. So just because a person has being playing in a certain way, and is not experiencing problems [i]NOW[/i], does not mean that they wont in time. IMO a technique which delivers fifty years of injury free playing (in her early days she played for up to fifteen hours a day), while not guarenteed, is a safe bet. While it is neither correct or incorrect, it's track record should at least convince people to give it some consideration. [/quote] On that basis though, I think we should offer advice that walking to the pub will one day wear your legs out , and that is why sometimes on the way home they don't work so well QED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmanzie Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1394964479' post='2397065'] Lots of people are using the terms "correct" and "incorrect" with regards playing with a pick. There is no definitive technique, but there are tried and (generally) trusted ones. Carol Kaye has being playing bass with a pick for fifty plus years and has never suffered from doing so. The problem with CTS and RSI is that they take a long time to show themselves. So just because a person has being playing in a certain way, and is not experiencing problems [i]NOW[/i], does not mean that they wont in time. IMO a technique which delivers fifty years of injury free playing (in her early days she played for up to fifteen hours a day), while not guarenteed, is a safe bet. While it is neither correct or incorrect, it's track record should at least convince people to give it some consideration. [/quote] I agree, I would definitely start with her technique as a model. I like to palm mute, and she doesn't, but I'm sure she's right seeing as she is brilliant and I am crap. She favours the 'taping a couple of layers of felt strip over the bridge' to stop resonances but it isn't to achieve the same sound as palm muting, it is a very subtle thing that just dulls the overtones and brings out the fundamental. She says it is essential for recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 [quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1394981678' post='2397307'] On that basis though, I think we should offer advice that walking to the pub will one day wear your legs out , and that is why sometimes on the way home they don't work so well QED. [/quote] Well....unless you can afford to be chauffeured to and from the pub, you don't have much choice. Whereas you can choose which pick method to use. As "Dell Boy" would say...."You know it makes sense... " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The Carol Kaye method may avoid RSI issues but it's done nothing for her memory. Like a Swiss cheese, it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles'tone Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The Carol Kaye pick method is ace for playing insanely fast basslines with ease, laughably so sometimes . Unfortunately it's pretty tricky to do live if your a mobile bass player or just standing up generally (in my experience) unless you have your bass strapped quite high. (I know the argument of having your strap the same length sitting or standing, but I'm 6'1 with long arms) I can see it would be the best way to do it if you're sat down in a studio all day everyday though. Loves the Kaye I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1394989979' post='2397445'] The Carol Kaye method may avoid RSI issues but it's done nothing for her memory. Like a Swiss cheese, it is. [/quote] Mmmm, cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1394989979' post='2397445'] The Carol Kaye method may avoid RSI issues but it's done nothing for her memory. Like a Swiss cheese, it is. [/quote] What will your memory be like at the age of 79 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1394995638' post='2397549'] What will your memory be like at the age of 79? [/quote] What? Where's my cocoa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1394995638' post='2397549'] What will your memory be like at the age of 79 ? [/quote] [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1394997019' post='2397572'] What? Where's my cocoa? [/quote] Half past seven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 So, you can't know if you will actually get CTS or RSI no matter what technique you use and it could take decades for it to show? So how do we know Carol Kaye isn't going too suffer for her technique in the future? How do we know it's her technique that has kept such problems at bay? Maybe she is just one if the lucky ones that wouldn't have got it even if using a poor technique? Taking such a hard line stance based on just one person seems a bit rash. Unfortunately my Bass history is severely lacking and right now I wish I knew more about other pick players going back as far as Mrs Kaye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1395004541' post='2397732'] Taking such a hard line stance based on just one person seems a bit rash. [/quote] Yes! We should have given Hitler a second chance. He made the trains run on time, y'know. Or was that Mussolini..? Can't remember. Edited March 16, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 For me, the most important part of pick technique is learning to alternate pick. It makes a huge difference if you can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles'tone Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1395004541' post='2397732'] So, you can't know if you will actually get CTS or RSI no matter what technique you use and it could take decades for it to show? So how do we know Carol Kaye isn't going too suffer for her technique in the future? How do we know it's her technique that has kept such problems at bay? Maybe she is just one if the lucky ones that wouldn't have got it even if using a poor technique? Taking such a hard line stance based on just one person seems a bit rash. Unfortunately my Bass history is severely lacking and right now I wish I knew more about other pick players going back as far as Mrs Kaye. [/quote] It's not really that the technique is great because she's lasted so long using it with no problems, but more that when you look into it, it's a common sense approach that utilizes the way our hands, wrists and arms are meant to function. It's like you can really tear it up by not putting any stress on anything you shouldn't or by using too much energy to do so. Scott Devine is thinking the same way when he's explaining how he slaps on one of his vids actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1395004541' post='2397732'] Taking such a hard line stance based on just one person seems a bit rash. [/quote] What hard line stance ????? The OP posted asking for tips on playing with a pick. I provided links to Carol Kaye's web site which provides such tips. I happened to point out that her method was a common sense one based on long term safety, as well as being an efficient way to play. It is all the same to me (and I'm sure to Ms Kaye too) whether people reject or accept the advice, because that is all it is.....i.e. [i]advice. [/i] Edited March 17, 2014 by Coilte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Just getting back to the topic... I'd advise against using very heavy plectrums. I use Dunlop 0.88mm as I find >1mm just far too much hard work sound too thuddy - like you're hitting a clothesline with a stick. ymmv Edited March 17, 2014 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I play pretty much exclusively with a pick. Funny thing is I prefer playing guitar with my fingers The only thing that I'd say hasn't been covered here is that you may find you need to play with the strap height a little bit compared to your fingerstyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1395050405' post='2397972'] ...you may find you need to play with the strap height a little bit compared to your fingerstyle [/quote] Yes. I've just started playing fingerstyle (after three decades of exclusive pick-playing [size=4] ) and found I needed to adjust the bass height slightly to avoid having too much of an angle at the wrist on the plucking hand. Angle-on-the-Wrist. It's a small village in Gloucestershire.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achknalligewelt Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I use Dunlop Tortex 1mm, and mute through faster parts with my left hand. I am a refugee from the guitar, so this is a hangover. I play with quite a cutting tone, and so tend to hold my hand a bit further down towards the bridge when being loud, moving neckwards for the softer sounds. The biggest issue I have with using a pick is continually losing the buggers. If we could make old nuclear waste into plectrums then leave them in a gig bag, they'd all just evaporate and that'd be that problem solved almost overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1395051512' post='2397990'] Angle-on-the-Wrist. It's a small village in Gloucestershire. [/quote] It's not far from One-off-the-Wrist. Edited March 17, 2014 by Billy Apple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seashell Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1395056190' post='2398056'] It's not far from One-off-the-Wrist. [/quote] Lol! And from a Mod, too Back On Topic... I was somewhat re-assured to see that several of you can't get the hang of pick playing. Not just me then! Our guitarist keeps on about getting me to play with a pick in order to be able to play faster. But I've tried it, really I have and the only result is that I play much, much slower. I'm sure if I had about a million years to practice I might eventually get the hang of it. But it's taken me 3 years to get where I am with finger style (ie not all that far, lol ) and I just don't have the time to go back to square one just to be able to play with a pick. I applaud anyone who can, but I'm afraid I don't think it's for me. Edited March 17, 2014 by seashell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 [quote name='seashell' timestamp='1395058742' post='2398078'] Our guitarist keeps on about getting me to play with a pick in order to be able to play faster. But I've tried it, really I have and the only result is that I play much, much slower. [/quote] Edge of right palm on the bridge, use as a pivot and anchor point and for muting... hard to explain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1395056190' post='2398056'] It's not far from One-off-the-Wrist. [/quote] Which in turn is just across the valley from the delightful hamlet of Frisbee-in-the-Nude. Edited March 17, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I like the dunlop thumb picks designed for acoustic guitar. It makes it much easier to grip and they're nice and thick. I like to play hard with a pick and generally grind them down very quickly having said all that I ran out of picks a couple of years ago and just don't bother now. If I want to "pick" I just use the nail of my finger, seems to work OK (until it rips and makes me cry) Also palm muting doesn't seem to have affected my wrists anywhere near as much as my teenage bedroom explorations. I wonder how many evenings Carol Kaye spent fantasising about Laura from the sixth form? It's not her technique that saved her from injury, it's a total lack of libido. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seashell Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1395065229' post='2398180'] Edge of right palm on the bridge, use as a pivot and anchor point and for muting... hard to explain! [/quote] Honestly Mark I think it's beyond me. I've had my treacher show me in lessons and everything. If picking was the only way to play bass I think I would have given up long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dyer Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 [quote name='seashell' timestamp='1395058742' post='2398078'] Our guitarist keeps on about getting me to play with a pick in order to be able to play faster. But I've tried it, really I have and the only result is that I play much, much slower. [/quote] Check out the three fingered technique of Mr Billy Sheehan, you will never need a pick to play fast again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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