Are high end basses for investors or musicians?

[Pinball]

I was talking to a guy behind the counter of guitar shop yesterday about high end guitars. He had some interesting thoughts on guitar manufacture. He made a number of interesting statements such as:

1. High end, mainly American guitar manufactures aren't making guitars for musicians anymore, they are making them for investors.

2. For the investment market, the looks, exotic materials and brand are more important that the performance of the instrument so don't expect an expensive high end guitar to out-perform a cheaper bass that has been built to play.


While things aren't as black and white as he suggests I can see where he is coming from.

Flame suit on

[Dad3353]

... or both..? Or neither..? I can imagine a numpty buying a high-end instrument as a learner, without necessarily thinking in investment terms. Or a virtuoso investing in his/her vocation's tools.
Were top of the range ever aimed at the 'average' person..? Are Aston Martins all owned by racing drivers..? How many, indeed, ever reach 100 mph at all..? Some folks just like 'em, and can afford 'em, I think. Same for instruments..?

[stingrayPete1977]

Sounds like bollocks to me

[stingrayPete1977]

I intend to purchase a Lakland 55-94 with a blue swimming pool finish, they play and sound very nice to me

[xilddx]

If a guitar does not play beautifully, and is not well built, and does not have great tone, no matter how much it costs and what rare materials it's built from it is not an investment. Only an idiot would buy an old expensive instrument that's poor quality as an investment. Having said that, many old crap Fenders sell so there are idiots around Words fail me that people would buy a NEW poor instrument as an investment.

[winterfire666]

i can believe it.
i used to work in a large (unamed) music shop and over a period of time i have seen some truly unacceptable build flaws (mainly on high end and limited run gibson guitars) some of the build quality was a joke, for example a £6.5k special edition les paul which literally had the fingerboard coming away because it had not been glued properly, i came into work one day and it had gone, i assumed to be sent back to gibson but no it had been sold, i was gobsmacked, all of the really bad ones with the high price tag got sold, most of them were never played before buying.
it truly disgusts me, and manufacturers should not be able to get away with it.

Edited August 25, 2013 by winterfire666

[krysh]

I tend do believe that most small boutique builders live from these "investors". most of them can't play well enough to tell if an instrument is great or just gorgeous.
on my way back from the musikmesse this year a met such a collector in the train. he buys buy the looks and doesn't play very well, but owns around 35 high end guitars, (nick huber, etc.) and even a ritter bass that he can't play but bought it because of the looks and the estimated value. so there should be more people with the money to afford these expensive toys....

[Lowender]

Guitars are not good investments. Even if you have a 1969 Precision, which would be worth about $4000, you have to realize that when it was purchased it cost $400, which in todays market is about $2000. So it would take over 40 years to make about 500 pounds. Hardly a fiscal coup.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Lowender

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377440422' post='2187514']
Guitars are not good investments. Even if you have a 1969 Precision, which would be worth about $4000, you have to realize that when it was purchased it cost $400, which in todays market is about $2000. So it would take over 40 years to make about 500 pounds. Hardly a fiscal coup.
[/quote]

Totally agree.

[krysh]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1377440422' post='2187514']
Guitars are not good investments. Even if you have a 1969 Precision, which would be worth about $4000, you have to realize that when it was purchased it cost $400, which in todays market is about $2000. So it would take over 40 years to make about 500 pounds. Hardly a fiscal coup.
[/quote]
I agree, too. but nevertheless there are people who buy these highend instruments as an investment.

[deanovw]

People with lots of money tend to buy expensive instruments.

Not many musicians I know have lots of money. Maybe I am moving in the wrong circles.

[discreet]

[quote name='deanovw' timestamp='1377443121' post='2187564']
Maybe I am moving in the wrong circles.
[/quote]

Yes. The ever-decreasing ones.

[deanovw]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1377443549' post='2187573']
Yes. The ever-decreasing ones.
[/quote]

[thisnameistaken]

Nah. High end basses are for middle-aged men with lots of disposable income. The same market that Porsche are in. I've never actually seen anyone gig a Fodera though, maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't.

[discreet]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1377443666' post='2187576']
High end basses are for middle-aged men with lots of disposable income. The same market that Porsche are in.
[/quote]

What makes me laugh is seeing such a man in his Porsche stuck in the same traffic jam I'm stuck in.

Edited August 28, 2013 by discreet

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1377443666' post='2187576']
Nah. High end basses are for middle-aged men with lots of disposable income. The same market that Porsche are in. I've never actually seen anyone gig a Fodera though, maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't.
[/quote]

Not sure if this is the case with boutique basses - I'd say it is the limited edition custom shop runs by the big brands that are specifically produced for this market.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Depends, I suppose.
I have a couple of high-ish end basses. I bought them because I liked them, how they felt, and how they played and sounded.
And because I could afford them at the time.
I still like them now.
Some of my friends have written-off their flashy cars that cost twice as much and have nothing to show for it. My Vigier is now 17 years old and going just fine ( not that my cheaper basses aren't!)
In some cases, it's just a matter of priorities.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' timestamp='1377444397' post='2187589']

Some of my friends have written-off their flashy cars that cost twice as much and have nothing to show for it. My Vigier is now 17 years old and going just fine.
[/quote]

Hallelujah! That's pretty much where I come in.

I keep seeing these threads about "high-end" (i.e. expensive) basses, but I'm betting that well over half the people posting on these threads routinely spend WAY more on their bog-standard box-with-four-wheels than they'd ever dream of spending on a bass.

And the bass will routinely hold a fair bit of its value for a long time, if it's rare & vintage it may even appreciate. Not many cars do that.

You may as well get excited about someone using £1 picks when everyone knows you have to be crazy to do that ... you can get a perfectly good pick for 25p and I hear there's a new factory in Vietnam turning them out for just 20p - fill yer boots!

[wateroftyne]

I think anyone buying a high-end bass as an investment is a little bit daft.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='Pinball' timestamp='1377438453' post='2187487']
1. High end, mainly American guitar manufactures aren't making guitars for musicians anymore, they are making them for investors.
[/quote]

I think you can still debate the merits of the 'musical instrument as investment' position - particularly on new instruments, when the big returns currently seem to be on the 'vintage' instruments.

I would state, in response to the above, that whilst people might call them 'investors' many are simply affluent amateurs - people with an interest, and with the disposable income to indulge that interest.

[stingrayPete1977]

Buying anything new as an investment is probably a bad idea, then again I know a guy who paid £9k for a Jimmy Page les paul a while ago, Gibson reduced them to £7200 a few months after, then Led Zepplin reformed a few months later and he sold it for £12500 so what do I know?

[cloudburst]

With the fscs only protecting £85k per bank that goes tits-up, you can run out of banks when trying to save fairly safely. So given the eggs/baskets scenario and the fact that you don't actually make a lot of interest on savings these days, it makes sense (certainly for me) to buy commodities which are not going to lose money, may gain a little and can be enjoyed too.

CB

[Fat Rich]

Second hand prices of most high end basses are usually disappointing, I know I'm not going to get my money back when I sell any of mine... probably less than half. I bought them because they fit my needs exactly, not with one eye on the future and probably the custom options that make a bass perfect for me make it less appealing for someone else.

Whether I qualify as a musician or not is another question

[Grangur]

The OP sounds like a retailer justifying why:

1 - He wont carry too many high priced instruments in stock - that would give him cash-flow issues.
2 - You should buy what he has in stock - moving his stock.

That said I think there can be cases where poor players can hope expensive instruments provide a short-cut to playing better. It won't work, of course, but it won't stop some of us..

Edited August 25, 2013 by Grangur

[skej21]

I suppose it depends on cost first and foremost. The price I pay for a Fender or Gibson etc through work is considerably less than the street/retail price, so I could theoretically buy and sell within a week (although id lose my job for profiteering!) and make a decent (percentage) of profit, so if I kept it for a decade it would would make a very tidy investment...

However, I'd rather just buy something I want with the money, use it and enjoy it!

Edited August 25, 2013 by skej21