Behringer is crap! - is it? do we give labels too much weight?

[icastle]

When you think about it, there are a finite number of ways that you can arrange electronic components to perform a specific task so a chorus pedal from Behringer won't be hugely different from a Boss one in design.

The main difference is going to be in the overall quality of the components, be they casing or electronic.

I've used Behringer rack effects for several years now.
They're cheap, they're reasonably quiet if you're sensible about separating mains and signal cables and they do the job admirably.

I don't think plastic cased effects pedals would last very long in a heavy duty environment and I guess it's difficult to see Behringer amps as even vaguely serious once you've owned\used some of the 'known brand goliaths', but they do fill a gap in the market.

[cheddatom]

It's not just about price. I've seen people regurgitate advice they've read online, on forums like this, without even trying it for themselves. Judge your gear with your ears, or in the case of a bass with your hands too.

Obviously durability is important too, but if you take care of your gear, it should be fine.

Apparently the behringer plastic pedals are very durable indeed, but I don't own any so wouldn't know. I would buy them if I allowed my pedal addiction to grip me again

[ben604]

I'm happy with the Behringer stuff I've bought (headphone amp, BDI21) and other "cheap" brands. My Harley Benton BA500H sounds ace and cost me, what, £170 for a light powerful amp? I use it to practice and as a gig backup for my Traynor YBA300 and no-one's ever complained!

Not to mention the X32/S16 that we've just ordered for the school.

Same as most brands, some good stuff, some rubbish, some of it works forever, some of it breaks within 10 minutes.

[LiamPodmore]

Behringer did have a name for themselves as being a bit sh*t, but i think that's slowly dissapearing since they introduced the X32 line and people realised that they can make a damn good product at a brilliant price point.

Liam

[Immo]

After all I heard about Behringer (and the opinions were "Meh." at best), I finally tried and pretty much had my opinion permanently made.
I plugged a bass (Squier VM TB) into a valve Behringer amp in a guitar shop one day. Gain was set to 3 in 10 points scale, the same was volume.
Guess how many notes I played? About 5-7. Then the amp made a "puff!" sound and was done for. Dunno if it was a tube or something else, but I had to turn that contraption off and call the staff.
Sorry, first impressions DO count.

[bartelby]

[quote name='Immo' timestamp='1363874667' post='2018730']
I plugged a bass (Squier VM TB) into a valve Behringer amp in a guitar shop one day. Gain was set to 3 in 10 points scale, the same was volume.
Guess how many notes I played? About 5-7. Then the amp made a "puff!" sound and was done for. Dunno if it was a tube or something else, but I had to turn that contraption off and call the staff.
Sorry, first impressions DO count.
[/quote]

My First Ampeg PF-500 didn't do much better than that. The second one lasted a bit longer (about 30 hours of use) before it went pop.

Edited March 21, 2013 by bartelby

[skankdelvar]

And then there's those JOYO lads. Amp sim clones for about 20% of the original. Tech 21 spitting feathers, I'd imagine.

Bizarrely, they also make a humungous Marshall 100w full-stack with a choice of G12T75's or Vintage 30's. And handwired tweed champ and deluxe clones for about half the cost of a boutique repro.

Edited March 21, 2013 by skankdelvar

[Dave Vader]

Only gripe I have with behringer pedals is that when the battery goes, the sound goes. Every other pedal I have had just gives you nothing when the effect is on. Behringers don't even give you the dry signal on the way through. Not good when your tuner runs out of juice mid gig, it involves a run across a stage with a cable....


Yes I bought a power supply now.

[JTUK]

Friend of mine brought a brand new hard-wired AC30...sounded great, but lasted 6 weeks.
Never went back to it....hand wired with what, would be my question..

I've run an SWR400 for over 20 years at silly temps and it only missed a beat when it was knocked off stage under power.
The tech said it was made with very good components to be able to do that...

I think most amps will perform up to a point... but there is a stage where the quality kicks in and becomes apparent...and that is where you need to recognise the value....and reconcile the price you are willing to pay.

[Immo]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1363874813' post='2018732']
My First Ampeg PF-500 didn't do much better than that. The second one lasted a bit longer (about 30 hours of use) before it went pop.
[/quote]
That's why I use 30+ years old solid state Sunn. You can smack this thing with a burning helicopter full of raging rabid elephants and it'll still work unspoilt.

[Ziphoblat]

I suppose it depends on what you're using it for. For home use their stuff is fine. For live use, I'd be a bit more cautious. My band has used a Behringer desk for a good few years now and while it's not the best sounding piece of kit, it doesn't get used at the best gigs, so that doesn't matter, and it's never given us any trouble. But that's just a desk, housed in a good case. I've had several cheaper pedals I've tried for a couple of gigs to gauge whether or not those types of effects were for me, and I've had a couple of those literally break down the middle after only a couple of gigs. Admittedly they weren't Behringer, but I can't see Behringers pedal casings being any better (one of the pedals I referred to actually had a (albeit thin) metal case, but was still cheap) given that they usually house their pedals in plastic.

As for the amps, there's no denying they have a bad reputation. And that's probably for a reason. On another forum I visit, a couple of years back there was a guy who swore by his Behringer amp that he'd bought a few months ago and would turn up in every single thread where they were mentioned as a brand to be cautious of because of reliability issues. He eventually changed his tune after it went bang and the power amp melted after he'd owned it for just less than a year. Point being, you probably get a few that go bang fairly quickly and the vast majority that work fine for a long time. But could you fee comfortable gigging something that for all you know is more liable than most amps to become dysfunctional 5 minutes into the gig? I know I couldn't. And I suppose that's why they're often recommended against. That doesn't just apply to Behringer, but to any amp that has a reputation for that. For example, the Ampeg Portaflex series have a bit of a reputation for cutting out and developing problems. Most of them probably work fine, but again I'd be uncomfortable relying on one at a gig until it'd worked reliably for a period of time. I was going to buy an Ampeg PF500 head a few months back (ended up not doing) but after reading that decided I'd have to take my Genz Benz Shuttle along with me too in case I ran into trouble. With an amp like Behringer, it's unlikely the person using it doing so for the tone (unlike somebody with a portaflex) rather than that it's cheap. So they probably can't afford a back-up. And if they could, it'd be another Behringer. Why buy two Behringers instead of spending that money on amp that costs twice as much from a more reputable brand? So yeah, I think it just boils down to what the buyer hopes to get out of it.

As for the headstock-crowd, they're a funny bunch. My guitarist used to have two guitars - a nice playing/sounding Epiphone (as Epiphones go it's a nice guitar, certainly performs well above the price tag) and a Gibson that was shot-to-hell (seriously pre-owned, he'd snapped the headstock off and had it repaired, it was just a studio model to begin with). All-in-all, the Epiphone was a vastly superior guitar, but he'd often turn up with the Gibson to gigs instead just because of the clueless audience members that would react with "wow, he's got a Gibson" (I actually heard that happen several times) unaware that the particular guitar in question would be lucky to fetch £200 on eBay. I'll never forget a gig I did when I was playing an EBMM Stingray and some fairly seasoned bassist (to put it politely) from one of the other bands wandered up and questioned what on earth that was in a sort of "you kids and your crazy modern things" way (not as if they'd been around for 35 years at this point) as if it was some crazy cheap physically challenged copy of a Fender. At least he complemented me on my playing afterwards (and then persisted to fawn over the Rickencrapper that the bassist from the next band pulled out). Makes me glad that having been through a lot of basses I've finally settled on just one that does everything I need (for now at least) and it's a good old USA Fender Jazz bass (not the first I've owned, but it's a particularly good specimen)... never run into any trouble with the headstock crowd anymore.

[onemanband]

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1363876411' post='2018766']
I suppose it depends on what you're using it for. For home use their stuff is fine. For live use, I'd be a bit more cautious.[/quote]

Ain't that the truth!!!

I would NEVER buy Behringer again!!
Let me explain. I had a Behringer mixer (can't remember the model), not very old and well treated throughout it's short life on the road. I was using it on what for me was a prestige gig (P&O cruise ship), in which I DI'd the mixer into the theatre PA system. Halfway through the show, the right chanel went down, f*****g up my whole show!! With the help of the sound technician's, I did manage to salvage some sort of performance, but I will never forgive that bloody Behringer mixer for causing me such embarrassment!! Behringer.....never again!!

I now use a Soundcraft EFX8, British made and totally reliable (wish I hadn't said that now!!)

Edited March 21, 2013 by onemanband

[bartelby]

[quote name='Immo' timestamp='1363876101' post='2018760']
That's why I use 30+ years old solid state Sunn. You can smack this thing with a burning helicopter full of raging rabid elephants and it'll still work unspoilt.
[/quote]


I can imagine!

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Immo' timestamp='1363876101' post='2018760']
That's why I use 30+ years old solid state Sunn. You can smack this thing with a burning helicopter full of raging rabid elephants and it'll still work unspoilt.
[/quote]

A corker! Elevated to the 'Famous Quotes' thread.

[mcnach]

It's obvious that corners have been cut on cheaper stuff, like Behringer.
My OP was not really about Behringer, 'though.

It was about being biased by names, and about building a shrine to big names and condemning to hell other names (supported by many people who have no first hand experience of the gear), and how that gets taken out of context and proportion.

I could have spoken about Squier. On TalkBass I remember years ago Squier being often beaten to the ground as utter crap, and gave you the impression that a Squier bass would pretty much disintegrate in your hands as you play it over the following year or so. And that's not true. Some may have been a bit naff, and used plywood bodies... but they are not going to just break down, normally.
I found it sad to read from teenagers who have no money talking dismissively about their "crap Squier" (that they saved up for, or their parents bought them), just to fit in with the group... It's even sadder that some might feel... I don't know, embarrased even about using a Squier and a Behringer.
That is sad.

I wish I could have played something like an Affinity series Squier and a Behringer amp back in the day!!!

Of course, if I have the money, I am happy to pay more for something I believe to be better build and offers me a sense of security. It has to sound good, first of all.
That's why I bought a TC RH450, after owning a Behringer BX3000 head (which sounded fine). Funny how on my second or third gig with the TC RH450, as I turned it on for soundcheck, it emitted a pop, followed by a small cloud of smoke... and the amp was dead. I did not have my Behringer with me that night but there was a Peavey head as back up and used that

My Behringer practice amp sounds better than any other similarly sized practice amps I've tried... and I don't really want to spend £300 on something I will only use in my room if I like the sound that something that cost £107 new, even if it says Behringer on it. Some would not even try it because of the label.
To each his own.

[icastle]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1363877024' post='2018774']
I can imagine!
[/quote]

I tried to but kept getting a fit of giggles when I got to the part with the elephants...

[mcnach]

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1363876411' post='2018766']
I'll never forget a gig I did when I was playing an EBMM Stingray and some fairly seasoned bassist (to put it politely) from one of the other bands wandered up and questioned what on earth that was in a sort of "you kids and your crazy modern things" way (not as if they'd been around for 35 years at this point) as if it was some crazy cheap physically challenged copy of a Fender.
[/quote]

Ha! I had a not too dissimilar situation with my Stingray too.

I played a gig, opening for another band, and after we did our thing I was at the bar, and this older guy tells me "nice little bass you played, sounded good". That sounded like a compliment. But he followed it with how he used to play bass years before, but he played Fenders, you know? The way he said it clearly showed me that he intended to impress me, and that to him Fenders were to top.
I heard his stories, nodded, laughed with him. Then I told him a bit more about my bass, how it was designed by Leo Fender himself after he quit Fender and started a new company called MusicMan... I felt a bit silly trying to big up my bass who somebody who did not matter, but I just could not resist it.

[JTUK]

The thing is that things get a name for a reason... not everyone will have used the kit, but they might have heard about them.
They may have snobby attitudes but that does not make the kit in itself bad..

BMW cars are top of the class so often for a reason.. you only have to drive the opposition to reaffirm their status.
Same with Swiss watches....even Rolex...

Some things are well made and you see or value the premium you'll pay...others less so.
Fender have always been capable of making a pile of sh*te.. for example.. so I would not call these a trusted maker, myself
Ditto Gibson

But only the buyer can really be sure what the kit is worth with the money they part with..
I know enough about certain makes...not to bother. from my perspective...

[paul_5]

everything these days is made in China

http://youtu.be/_Xn3SK9rSdQ

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1363872849' post='2018700']
Behringerbass gear might be OK for bedroom use but, IMO, as soon as you're gigging you need something better.
[/quote]

Oh, I wouldn't have used one for gigging. That said, I've played plenty of gigs where I've had to use the "house amp" or one that the headliners bought with them, and gigged with several amps which I thought were far worse than those Behringer heads and probably cost quite a lot more. (Line6, in particular, were memorably bad.)

[Immo]

The thing with the "budget-version-companies" (Squier, Epiphone etc.) is that you're holding a thing that looks like a high profile stuff and then from the short distance one could tell it's a cheaper version. It's a matter of user's psychical comfort I guess. Many of us were raised in a societies with "high goals" somewher under the skin and - for example - many of us, as a kids, were laughed at at school if we haven't had brand shoes or other expensive stuff.

But on the other hand, we rely on the professional opinions. I imagine most of us (by "us" I mean seasoned and/or knowledgeable bass players) wouldn't mind playing a JV Squier even if we would feel bad with playing a "regular" Squier bass. And if many professionals tell us stuff like Beringer failed them, we tend to avoid it. Most opinions aren't coming from nowhere (as long as the aren't made by jealous competitors, that is ).

[chris_b]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1363877213' post='2018779']
....My OP was not really about Behringer, 'though....
[/quote]

[quote]
....do we give labels too much weight?....
[/quote]

I think labels are fine.

They enable you to short cut the learning curve and learn from others mistakes and good fortune.

By using labels you know an Aston, Roller or BMW will be a good car but you’ll also know that if you buy the BMW you’ll be viewed in a certain way, and never be let into slow moving traffic.

Labels are good because what they indicate is mostly true.

Edited March 21, 2013 by chris_b

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1363877213' post='2018779']
I found it sad to read from teenagers who have no money talking dismissively about their "crap Squier" (that they saved up for, or their parents bought them), just to fit in with the group... It's even sadder that some might feel... I don't know, embarrased even about using a Squier and a Behringer.
That is sad.

[/quote]

Agreed, especially as a lot of the cheap stuff is quite good at the moment and no-one should feel inferior for using it. In my "guitar" band I gig with a £99 Axl, which was great for the money - solid body, alnico pickups, tuners that work and a nice feeling neck. I've compared it with a friends US Standard Strat side by side through the same amp, and while the two guitars have a different character from one another there's absolutely nothing about the sound of the Axl that shows it up as the cheap one. Sure, the fit and finish are better on the Fender, but the £99 guitar does the job. Being happy playing less revered brands is a matter of having confidence in your own judgement, so I can sort of understand why many want to make safe choices (i.e. trusted brands like Fender) when starting out.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Beer of the Bass

[Elvis Valentine]

I really like those behringer bass amps.
I nearly bought an amp and cab because i loved the sound of it.
Cant remember why i didnt.

[discreet]

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1363876411' post='2018766']...I've had several cheaper pedals I've tried for a couple of gigs to gauge whether or not those types of effects were for me, and I've had a couple of those literally break down the middle after only a couple of gigs. [b]Admittedly they weren't Behringer[/b], but I can't see Behringers pedal casings being any better (one of the pedals I referred to actually had a (albeit thin) metal case, but was still cheap) given that they usually house their pedals in plastic...[/quote]

So you haven't [i]actually[/i] used a Behringer pedal at a gig, then? That's why you 'can't see Behringer's pedal casings being any better'... [i]because you haven't used them![/i] This is just the kind of groundless speculation I mentioned in [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/203033-behringer-is-crap-is-it-do-we-give-labels-too-much-weight/page__view__findpost__p__2018579"]post #13[/url]!

You are associating the Behringer name with some pedals that failed. [i]But they weren't Behringer pedals[/i]. I'm no evangelist for their gear in particular, but it's very easy to see how they get a totally undeserved and unfair rep on forums!

I actually have used a Behringer BDI-21 pedal at many and various gigs, it was thrown around and generally abused like most pedals are, and though certainly made of some kind of plastic, the case proved more than robust enough to gig with. I defy anyone to come on here and tell me they've [i]personally [/i]had a Behringer BDI-21 pedal break when they stomped on it!

Edited March 21, 2013 by discreet