Fender (In)consistency.

[edstraker123]

Hi,
I've currently been doing some research into a new guitar and have been checking out Strats by Fender and G&L etc. On almost every site I looked at, the advice was that the G&L guitars were better made and were consistently good straight out of the factory and that you had to play quite a lot of Fender's to find a good one. Presumably this would also apply to Fender bass guitars.
What have peoples experience been in buying new Fender basses, what is it that distinguishes a good one from a bad one , is it tone, is it finish , could you buy a MIM that was a better bass than a USA etc?
Is there anything to particularly look out for especially if your LGS only has a couple of Fenders to test against each other ?

Edited February 20, 2013 by edstraker123

[Lozz196]

Well I`m yet to buy a Fender, be it USA, MIM, CIJ, Squier, that once set-up, I can`t get along with. That said, I`ve only ever bought two Fenders new that didn`t require a major going over on the set-up before I was happy with them. I think this is the area a lot of people look at, then think the instrument/brand is no good.

I tried a Road Worn at a music shop a few weeks back and the set-up was appalling, but the sound was great. How many people played that bass and thought Fender were rubbish because it was badly set-up?

[Musicman20]

It's a tough one. Huge mass production, so there are some 'bad' ones around that looked cobbled together.

For the recent MIA prices, I would expect a lot.

I have two very good MIA Fenders, (2009, 2011), but I've played many bad Fenders.

It doesn't put me off, it just makes it hard to buy one.

If you can, try before you buy.

[Evil Undead]

I've only ever played a few Fenders.

One was a 60th Anniversary MIA that was nice, but the shop setup wasn't great.

One was a MIM Jazz that I don't think I would have taken if the shop owner had given it to me for free.

And my MIA P that's just amazing, although I did have to set it up and shim the neck a little.

[spongebob]

I've only had good experiences with Fenders TBH.

Much more than I can say about most of the RIcs I've owned (and then sold......!) [size=4] [/size]

[EssentialTension]

I'd never expect a Fender (or any other bass) to be set up to my liking in the shop - wrong strings for a start - but I've never had a problem with a Fender once I set it up. Other people will have had a completely different experience and tell you how bad they are.

The G&L I had was also excellent but they are quite rare in UK shops.

[edstraker123]

I agree, I would expect to have to change strings and do some tinkering with the action to get the bass to feel how I want, but it would seem a bit harsh to say that a bass was bad if it is just in need of a set up.
Is it tone or buzzy electrics or some other issues which make people call them bad ?

[jonno1981]

G&L have always been regarded as the superior brand to Fender in terms of consistency, build quality etc but the second-hand value is a pittance. Fender is just the brand most people aspire to. If you decide to go with G&L it's really worth looking around as you can pick up ridiculous secondhand bargains. If you buy new, don't expect to get back much more than half of what you paid for it! At least with Fender you have a solid second-hand price if you decide to move it on.

[Fat Rich]

Some Fenders resonate well and have loads of tone and character, some sound dead and lifeless. Most are somewhere in between.

I've been playing Fenders for over 25 years and I think generally the consistency and quality control is as good now as it's ever been, but I'd still recommend playing it before you buy.

[LemonCello]

I have 3 Fender Precisions, a US Std, a MIM Blacktop and a Chinese Squier CVP (just scored from Raggy on here) cheers mate! In order of build quality the Squier is as good as the US Std (which is very good), the MIM comes in 3rd but it's still decent. I've probably been lucky as I bought all 3 blind. The Squier is astonishing for the money! I did move on an Indonesian Squier VMP quite quickly as it was pants - strings didn't line up with pole pieces and it sounded weak with a very woolly E string.

[Hobbayne]

I bought my 2011 American Standard P Bass in October last year. It only needed a little tweak by the shop before they sold it to me. These new Fenders coming through now since 2008 ish, are very good indeed. The paint is a little thinner on these newer models and is easily chipped, but the playabilty is a lot better than it has been for many years!!

Edited February 20, 2013 by Hobbayne

[Hobbayne]

And the bog standard Fender strings are so much better than the old cheesewire that used to pass as strings.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Hobbayne

[risingson]

Rule number one, take the advice you will see/receive on internet forums with the most gigantic spoonful of salt. At the end of the day people on sites like this (including myself) might ramble on about what I perceive to be the shortcomings of brand 'X', its shoddy fit and finish, bad electronics and all of that but it's best to use your own judgement to distinguish between a bass you want to buy and a bass you don't want to buy.

I went and checked out a new Fender AM Jazz Deluxe the other day in a high street store and I was actually pretty taken aback by the quality of the instrument. The new Fender U.S prices are at first glance pretty rich (nearly a full £300 more expensive than when I bought my US Jazz 7 or so years back) but if this one bass was anything to go by, the quality of Fender may well have finally gone up. It was one of the most impressive Jazz basses I've ever tried out in any store, boutique or otherwise.

My thinking on it is that if it sounds and plays good then you're kind of almost all of the way there with what you need from your bass anyway.

Edited February 20, 2013 by risingson

[Highfox]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1361395349' post='1985430']
And the bog standard Fender strings are so much better than the old cheesewire that used to pass as strings.
[/quote]

Here here to that, Love the newish flats they are putting out and they seem a steal at the price!

I have 4 Fenders in different flavours 2 Jap and 2 Usa. they all needed a setup and a bit of tweaking to get right but once right they are as good as it gets in my book.

[Schnozzalee]

You've been checking out Strats!!? I've been on a quest for the last year. The LSL saticoy is the worst i've played for the money (if you're going boutique), the 1954 50th Anniversary Masterbuilt Fender is the best i've tried. What price range are you looking within?

Edited February 20, 2013 by Schnozzalee

[ead]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1361395372' post='1985432']
Rule number one, take the advice you will see/receive on internet forums with the most gigantic spoonful of salt. At the end of the day people on sites like this (including myself) might ramble on about what I perceive to be the shortcomings of brand 'X', its shoddy fit and finish, bad electronics and all of that but it's best to use your own judgement to distinguish between a bass you want to buy and a bass you don't want to buy.

[/quote]

Good advice that I wish I had followed some years ago - my personal experience rather spoilt fenders basses for me.

Individuals on forums can realistically only ever have played a tiny percentage of the output of mass producers. Even adding up the collective experience of Fender playing on here, it will span instruments made over a number of years and is unlikely to be statistically significant.

So make you own decisions on what you play, and if possible get hold of as many as you can - should be easier with Fenders than other brands I suspect.

[wateroftyne]

It's been at least a couple of days since we talked about this...

Bits of wood, plastic and wire screwed together on a conveyor belt are always going to suffer from inconsistencies. What usually doesn't work in Fender's favour are the factory set-ups... if you call tweaking them until they're virtually unplayable a 'factory set up', that is.

[cocco]

I've had various fender Ps. My first was a 78 USA, that was great but really heavy, then a CIJ 70 RI. That was a good weight but a little head heavy and with really weak pickups. Then I had a Mexican 50s classic, that was the best of the bunch, nice neck, good finish and great sound, but still not right. Yesterday I got a Lakland Bob Glaub, now I'm happy.

[6v6]

[quote name='edstraker123' timestamp='1361347030' post='1984754']
Hi,
I've currently been doing some research into a new guitar and have been checking out Strats by Fender and G&L etc. On almost every site I looked at, the advice was that the G&L guitars were better made and were consistently good straight out of the factory and that you had to play quite a lot of Fender's to find a good one. Presumably this would also apply to Fender bass guitars.
What have peoples experience been in buying new Fender basses, what is it that distinguishes a good one from a bad one , is it tone, is it finish , could you buy a MIM that was a better bass than a USA etc?
Is there anything to particularly look out for especially if your LGS only has a couple of Fenders to test against each other ?
[/quote]

My experience recently when I went looking for a MIA P bass was the setups on every single bass I tried (about 6 of them) were seriously terrible - the action on all of them was way, way too high. All needed the nut re-cutting, new strings, possibly a fret level, possibly neck-shimming, major tweaks to the truss rod and bridge etc etc. At the time I thought the shop were just lazy, but it sounds like this experience is pretty typical. Suffice to say I didn't buy one

Since you mention Strats, I've owned/own quite a few USA Fender strats, and the pick of the non-custom-shop ones are the American vintage reissues IMO (I had a '57 reissue), provided you can get on with the vintage radius fingerboards and small frets.

Of the more modern ones I reckon the USA deluxes take some beating, but try to find one that's not too heavy - the necks are *great* on these, slightly more modern feel than the AV models due to bigger frets and flatter fingerboard, but they still feel like a proper Fender should (not too modern, comfortable)

I also had a USA G&L legacy - this was great, really light, resonant, but pickups were a bit weak, and it had a very flat fingerboard with huge jumbo frets. G&L make some great instruments IMO, but they do not feel the same as a Fender - much more modern feel IME (not sure if the same holds true for their basses?). I've also played a tribute Legacy, which was very similar to the USA one, but much heavier and less resonant (woods not as good basically).

Anyway, getting back OT (before I get told off for talking about guitars ), IMO the thing which distinguishes a great Fender (or any instrument for that matter) from a just-OK one is the un-amplified tone and resonance, when you play fairly hard the whole instrument should vibrate, so if you can feel that resonance through the neck and body then you're on to a winner IMO, invariably it leads to a better amplified tone and a more satisfying playing experience.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1361385669' post='1985170']
Some Fenders resonate well and have loads of tone and character, some sound dead and lifeless. Most are somewhere in between.

[b]I've been playing Fenders for over 25 years and I think generally the consistency and quality control is as good now as it's ever been, but I'd still recommend playing it before you buy.[/b]
[/quote]
This is exactly how I feel.

I've had many Fenders and I am delighted with my 2011 USA Deluxe V-Neck Strat, and I've had some lovely Fender Japan guitars and basses. I tried a particular new USA Standard Jazz in 2011 in Denmark Street, and I thought it was lovely, great player, some others have been only 'good'. I think USA Fenders are very good and pretty consistent at the moment, apparently the Mex Fenders are getting better too. But Japan Fenders are fantastic, all depends what you're after really.

Edited February 21, 2013 by xilddx

[Musicman20]

My viewing of a few recenty shows the differences in every level of Fender:

MIM 70s Jazz - Beautiful finish, good matching of grain between the pieces of body wood, excellent binding and blocks, flawless neck pocket, superb fit and finish throughout.

MIA RI 60s Jazz - This bass looked cobbled together, patchy paintwork, rough neck joint, one pickup looked like it was a few mm out of line, generally disappointing. Didn't feel great when I played it. About £1000 more than the above.

MIM RW Nate Mendal P Bass - As with the MIM 70s Jazz, superb build, and lightweight. Again, £1000 cheap than the RI 60s Jazz.

Weird.

[discreet]

[quote name='cocco' timestamp='1361435068' post='1985790']
Yesterday I got a Lakland Bob Glaub, now I'm happy.
[/quote]

I know it's been said before - but if you want a really great Fender bass, buy a Lakland.

[wateroftyne]

Yeah - Warwickhunt has a MIM roadworn J that is absolutely to die for.

It's a roll of the dice.

[BigLicks67]

I've had 4 strats over the years, a 1977 American Strat, a Tokai (pre-lawsuit), a USA standard and an Eric Johnson, also had a mexican Tele.
Regards, inconsistency a lot of the problem lies with the shop, some shops just take them out of the box and just hang them on the wall, without any thought for the basic set up, then leave the same strings on for an eternity. A lot of stories about mexican guitars being made out of seventeen pieces of wood are nonsense and generally I think they represent good value for money. If you compare the Mex standard with the USA standard then it's probably the fit and finish which is superior on the USA model. In fact the Squier higher end models seem to be closer to the USA models in that respect. Apart from that the radius is the same, but the Mex has a 21 fret neck and the USA a 22 fret neck, also the nut is wider on the USA and the bridge string spacing narrower, on top of that you have a 2 point tremolo rather than the vintage 6 screw type. Pickups tend to be a bit smoother and maybe the electronics a bit better (?)

Overall the best Strat I've played is the EJ Strat, but in a blind sound test you couldn't differentiate between that and my USA standard plugged in and acoustically the Ash bodied standard is more resonant.

I'd assume these same differences apply to Fender basses. I recently played a Squier Classic Vibe Precision and was amazed at the quality for the price, same applies to a Mex 70's reissue Jazz Bass.

[Wil]

I've had a few Fenders over the years, a 2006 MIM P bass, a 2002 MIJ Jaguar guitar, a '99 US Standard Jazz bass and my current CV 60s Strat. They've all needed some setting up/tweaking (replacement bridge saddles for the Jag and Strat due to silly vintage design flaws), but I've been very very happy with all of them except the MIM P. That one just sounded dead no matter what I did with it, both plugged in and unplugged. So, yeah, try before you buy.