Flakey band members

[JTUK]

I still think bands are democracies AND compromises but if you can keep talking, there is less chance to be 'misunderstood'.

For instance..we have a member who has BIG time constraints and demands but we have always known this. We try and keep him onside and don't make him choose between the band and his family or work..which are his issues.
We know he will be slow on new numbers as time is critical with all he has going on..but we really like his sound and playing, so we don't add to the 'hassle' in his life. We hope we are a nice release from all that and he continues to want to keep going. The situation is understood..and hopefully nursed along for the time being.

If the music side wasn't working, that would be another story... but for some people..understandably, the band is not high on the list of PRIORITIES... sure, it is nice, and probably even better than 'nice', but you have to be reasonable about things and keep talking things through. That way you might see the road crash a bit earlier.

All our guys have a pretty professional attitude to things,... what needs to be done, where we are going, what we want to do musically, what dates appeal etc etc .. Basically, we talk.
and acknowledge other people's perspectives and responsibilities. We don't pick fights and make people choose..

Edited November 22, 2012 by JTUK

[TimR]

Generally it's lack of proper communication. So the drummer obviously doesn't understand why the guy is telling you to stop playing, and the guy doesn't understand that you don't need 5 minutes to clear the room.

So the solution is to explain to your drummer why the guy knocks on the door and to tell the guy that you only need to be reminded if you are still playing 5mins before the end of time.

With all these flakey problems it boils down to communication, assumptions and people not being aware of how their actions and lack of communication is affecting others.

A lot of people in today's world have no idea of what is going on around them.

Edited November 22, 2012 by TimR

[seashell]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1353585636' post='1876262']
Generally it's lack of proper communication. So the drummer obviously doesn't understand why the guy is telling you to stop playing, and the guy doesn't understand that you don't need 5 minutes to clear the room.

So the solution is to explain to your drummer why the guy knocks on the door and to tell the guy that you only need to be reminded if you are still playing 5mins before the end of time.

With all these flakey problems it boils down to communication, assumptions and people not being aware of how their actions and lack of communication is affecting others.

A lot of people in today's world have no idea of what is going on around them.
[/quote]

Yes this is all true. But I'd better clarify it [b]isn't [/b]drummer who's the problem here! I was just trying to be a bit amusing in my earlier post and not identify anyone as such, . But it's the singer who's got the problem with this. And what worries me in particular is that he seems to get [b]so [/b]burned up about it that I wonder if he has anger management issues in general. So I tend to treat him with a bit of caution now.

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1353587476' post='1876289']
Yes this is all true. But I'd better clarify it [b]isn't [/b]drummer who's the problem here! I was just trying to be a bit amusing in my earlier post and not identify anyone as such, . But it's the singer who's got the problem with this. And what worries me in particular is that he seems to get [b]so [/b]burned up about it that I wonder if he has anger management issues in general. So I tend to treat him with a bit of caution now.
[/quote]

The polite knock on the door and 5 minute signal is nothing to get flustered about. I've always thought it was a nice touch as you might be the band waiting to come in next sometimes.
All singers are up themselves mentalists to a greater or lesser extent. I'd wind him up a bit to see if he has an early breaking point. You don't want to find that out during an important gig. You can delegate the drummer to yank his chain. They're usually up for that sort of caper.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Low End Bee

[davehux]

Our problem is slightly reversed.

We have a guy who is keen, dedicated, always on time and wants the band to do well, but can play like Les Paul one minute and Les Dawson the next.

[seashell]

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1353588151' post='1876298']
I'd wind him up a bit to see if he has an early breaking point. You don't want to find that out during an important gig. You can delegate the drummer to yank his chain. They're usually up for that sort of caper.
[/quote]

Tee hee, don't tempt me!

[RockfordStone]

ive given up on bands for the time being for this very reason, ive had 4 solid years of flakey members, and it gets so tiresome, especially if you are willing to put the effort in

[TimR]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1353587476' post='1876289']


Yes this is all true. But I'd better clarify it [b]isn't [/b]drummer who's the problem here! I was just trying to be a bit amusing in my earlier post and not identify anyone as such, . But it's the singer who's got the problem with this. And what worries me in particular is that he seems to get [b]so [/b]burned up about it that I wonder if he has anger management issues in general. So I tend to treat him with a bit of caution now.
[/quote]

All communication. You can see his behaviour is odd, but he hasn't told you what his problems are so have to tip toe round him to avoid problems.

It makes more sense to be the singer as all he has to do, generally, is turn up and plug in.

However, singers have to learn different verses to each song and entertain the crowd, so the pressure is generally on them as the front person.

[KevB]

Probably told this before but my fave 'flakey member' moment was a project that i was asked to get involved in by a guitarist who I'd previously been in a band with and got on OK with. He'd started rehearsing with a a guitar/vox man and a drum machine and was looking for bass/extra vox. Everything seemed OK apart from the ridiculous amount of time we spent getting intros right to the nanosecond with the drum machine. It had been made clear to me that once we had got a half decent set together then a drummer would be found and we'd work it up with them. It didn't go down well when I suggested the drummer probably wouldn't reproduce the drum machine to the precision we'd been rehearsing so it was a bit pointess going over it in such detail when it would change again when the 'real' drummer came onboard. However I kept at it and always knew whatever the 'new' track was to learn that week, usually far better than the guitar/vox man who'd suggested it.
Then one week I came in and before I played a note I got a tirade from the guitar/vox man criticsing everything from my style of playing to the tone of my rig and suggesting I was the one keeping them back from gigging by that stage and they would be gigging if they had taken on a different bass player. We had been at it about 8 weeks and in that time had rehearsed maybe 6 songs (mostly doing the same one over and over quite pointlessly). I always knew the songs better than the guy having a go at me so i couldn't see how i was the 'bottle neck' in process. I looked over at my mate who was utterly dumbstruck. Quietly packed my gear up, wished them all the best finding the player that would get them magically on the road and walked out. Got a call a few days later from my mate saying he'd quit too. Never seen the guitarist/vox guy in a band or doing a solo spot anywhere to this day. He'd apparently been a regular gigging player years ago, quit for 12 years and the new project was supposedly to get him back into it.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1353580838' post='1876218']
But he does have the temerity to stick his head round the studio door and let us know if there is another band waiting when we are coming to the end of our time.
[/quote]

I find studios that work this way to be the best. In one of my bands, the studio where we used to rehearse, if a band over-runs, they won`t do this. I don`t think it`s the incoming bands responsibility to ensure the room is ready - a sure way for arguments/aggro etc - but the people who run the studio.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1353589835' post='1876328']
... ive had 4 solid years of flakey members ...
[/quote]

Not sure this works conceptually ...

[melodybass]

Agh the curse of flakey band members! In my last band I had two of them. The drummer was a lovely kid but smoked more green than he ate food, didn't reply to messages all week & would turn up not having done his homework citing busyness...he was 19 with a part time job & living with mum & dad. After six or so months we played a show in a good club & the cracks in his playing just erupted on stage, it was awful. I gently released him in the following couple of days. The guitarist/singer was worse. Started off as my writing partner & thus was supposed to be co-leader. He'd make all the right noises in terms of effort but was never quite there when it counted - writing sessions, the business side of things etc. I'd long since fooled myself into thinking we were a partnership worth keeping so would take him to & from practice, pick up the slack when he [s]couldn't be bothered[/s] wasn't able to finish tunes, all sorts. It was never going to last. One day just after the drummer had departed I told him I was burned out on doing demos for everyone & giving him lifts & he flipped, accused me of thinking I was the big I am, ruining the band because he wouldn't be able to get to practice, I was shocked. We tried to compromise but the damage was done & a week or so later I was assembling a brand new band around the songs & the name. I think those guys have got me down as some sort of ruthless Hitler type now. If that's what they want to call no bullshit pro attitude then best of luck to em! They'll need it.

The clear out is the best thing I ever did. It's taken longer than expected but I've handpicked the members based on a mix of talent & reliability - I'd never go more than 60/40 on those two qualities now - & the difference as band leader is amazing. I'd forgot that you're supposed to enjoy playing music first & foremost!

& if I ever encounter sloppiness again it's one warning & out. Making friends should be a bonus - not a primary goal - of a successful band, whatever your definition of success is. Amen!

[dmccombe7]

Must admit i was upfront and honest with any band i've been in that my job is to a certain degree a bit unpredictable and i need reasonable notice of gigs or rehearsals ie more than a days notice kinda thing and the bands have all been very understanding and adapted to suit around me where possible.
I think it depends on what the band members are looking for in a band.
I can't drop my work because band decides they have a gig on a Friday 200miles from home and expect me to take holidays to attend although that never actually happened but i exagerate for effect as bass players regularly need to do cause we can be a bit boring - LOL

Honesty up front will work.

Dave

[jezzaboy]

I have roughly the same problem. Myself, the drummer and singer were all part of a band that went belly up as the guitarist, though a great player was also a bottle merchant. So the 3 of us got together, worked out a set and I spent some time getting a guitarist sorted. After a few attempts, we have a decent guitarist and now the singer is starting to get very hard to get a hold of and is very non comitial when I do get a hold of him!

So I spoke with drummer boy and we are gonna bin the singer and try and get someone else in. A prospect that doesn`t appeal to me but it`s got to be done.

As the old saying goes, "bands would be great if it wasn`t for the people in them!"

[MiltyG565]

I think it's because a lot of musicians are just dreamers. lets face it, we all know a wannabe guitar kid who thinks that slash is the greatest, has 3 (normally very poor) guitars, but can play none of them properly, because they don't have the motivation to learn them. I'm pretty sure if they were serious about learning, if they had maybe 10 lessons to get them started, they could go on from there. Always ask how committed the other members are before letting them join the band. literally, just say "we are going to attack this hard, are you 100% willing and committed, because we have had our share of dreamers, and it isn't what we are after".

[martin8708]

Everybody in a band has different hopes / expectations / aspirations /level of commitment because we are all different .
Do we perceive flakeyness as some one that just exhibits different behaviour to ourselves ?
I always try to think of myself as the " normal " one in the band , but I'm sure some people think I am the outsider or the person who muddies the water of the band puddle .

As they say , communication is paramount , but mind-reading is preferable .

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1353792462' post='1878590']
Everybody in a band has different hopes / expectations / aspirations /level of commitment because we are all different .
Do we perceive flakeyness as some one that just exhibits different behaviour to ourselves ?
I always try to think of myself as the " normal " one in the band , but I'm sure some people think I am the outsider or the person who muddies the water of the band puddle .

As they say , communication is paramount , but mind-reading is preferable .
[/quote]

flakiness is not committing to the band, when that is what everyone else does and expects from you too.

[martin8708]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1353830824' post='1878730']


flakiness is not committing to the band, when that is what everyone else does and expects from you too.
[/quote]

There are many levels of commitment to a band .
I learn the songs ,turn up for rehearsals and gigs , help with bookings and promotion of the band .
However , I also have a day job, a mortgage , bills to pay and I even have other interests outside of music .
My livelihood comes before the band , being a bass player in a pub band won't put a roof over your head .

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1353837071' post='1878788']
There are many levels of commitment to a band .
I learn the songs ,turn up for rehearsals and gigs , help with bookings and promotion of the band .
However , I also have a day job, a mortgage , bills to pay and I even have other interests outside of music .
My livelihood comes before the band , being a bass player in a pub band won't put a roof over your head .
[/quote]

I assume it's the same for everyone. i have 2 jobs, an A level course, other interests and bills to pay too, doesn't mean i would be less committed than anybody else in the band.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1353837071' post='1878788']
There are many levels of commitment to a band .
I learn the songs ,turn up for rehearsals and gigs , help with bookings and promotion of the band .
However , I also have a day job, a mortgage , bills to pay and I even have other interests outside of music .
My livelihood comes before the band , being a bass player in a pub band won't put a roof over your head .
[/quote]

and we have the same name, hey, waddaya know? we could be long lost brothers.

[RockfordStone]

people have different agendas and ideas about what the band should be. The issue ive always had is other members honesty about this.

if i haven't got the time or indeed the desire to be in a band, im upfront with the band and address my issues or give them the chance to find someone who is on their wavelength.

all too often i have people who say "yeah man im well up for it, lets practice tuesday next week" only to be told an hour before "oh man i can't come, ive just left work so im not going to have time to have dinner then come out" and its this flakey bull sh*t which seems all to common nowadays.

the amount of times ive had to cover the cost of members not showing up for practices is unreal... which is why now i can't be bothered.

Edited November 26, 2012 by RockfordStone

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='rogerstodge' timestamp='1353538392' post='1875942']
Yea i supported both Mud and Sweet on numerous occasions, Les became unrecogniseable and Brian had to be almost carried on stage
[/quote]

Yep I was a pro bassman at the time and seeing Brian trying to walk into the venue was bad enough. For that reason never saw any of their sets. To be honest this was another reason for me to get a "proper" job.

[Marvin]

I don't have to put up with one bunch of flaky egits anymore. The band folded last night, obviously in true flaky style though I got a text message near midnight to tell me what others had decided.

What a waste of time that was, nearly 18 months of getting absolutely nowhere. In hindsight I would have been better off...going fishing or something. I really do wonder sometimes if bands and music are really worth the pain in the arse it always turns out to be.

[discreet]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1354178183' post='1882988']
...I really do wonder sometimes if bands and music are really worth the pain in the arse it always turns out to be.[/quote]

The problem is, bands and music seem to attract the deluded and idle flotsam and jetsam of society, in a way that Accountancy (for example), does not. In my humble opinion, of course.

Any accountants out there want to form a band? Mick Jagger did quite well out of it.

Edited November 29, 2012 by discreet

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1354182012' post='1883060']
Any accountants out there want to form a band? Mick Jagger did quite well out of it.
[/quote]
I don't think Mick Jagger ever stopped being an accountant

<pedantry>....although I don't think that was his subject at LSE...</pedantry>