Lord Sausage Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I noticed on another thread Scott Devine sharing a lick for others to learn. This took me back to a time at college in the 90's when doing HND in Popular Music, which was essentially Jazz. Our main project one year was to compose, arrange and score a piece of music for a Jazz big band. Then conduct them as they recorded it. It was a great project learned incredible amounts. Anyway, for the solo section you could either let a musician improvise or you could write a solo. Being a cocky 19yr old clever dick i wrote a five part written sax solo. They didn't nail it first time, so whilst they were breaking it down one of the sax players goes:- " That's a Charlie Parker lick, that's a Wayne Shorter lick!" etc I turn to my lecturer saying " Are they! I didn't nick em, I don't know any licks, I'm a 19yr old bass player" My lecturer reassured me "It's alright i know you didn't. That guy is a lick player. He knows tonnes of licks and sticks em all together. The other guy (points at another sax player) just totally improvises all the time, the complete opposite, there basically the types of players you get" So i was wondering what are you like? Me, i can honestly say i've never tried to learn anyones licks in my life. I may have picked some up naturally by ear or when i've had to learn a piece. But i've never sat down to copy licks. How about you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm not disparaging those who do learn licks by the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 When composing my own stuff, no I don't copy licks knowingly. I play mostly covers in my band so, yep knicked licks all night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I've never sat down and learned licks per se. I've learned and transcribed tunes and solos,and invariably they contain licks which work their way into your vocabulary,but I've never learned just a lick by itself. Pretty much everyone plays licks,even guys who claim to improvise everything.Sure,they may not have taken a Marcus or a Brecker lick,but everyone has certain things that they play often that are their own lick.Some guys do it more obviously than others though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yeh I'm not consciously copying anyone else but I copy myself all the time! My licks are boring me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I nick things and incorporate them and mix them up with other stuff and then take from a pretty diverse set of 'influences'..altho that is too strong a word..they are basically bits I like. I will them absorb them within my own style and to a few people...will sound like my own. I am a total mish-mash of 1001 directions and I will have one of two things that are strictly all me.. couldn't have come from anywhere else. I don't think about it any more than that... and I have got to a stage where everything I play has my take on it. I like it this way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I just improvise, but there are a few self styled patterns/licks that I tend to throw out semi-regularly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sté Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1349734870' post='1829979'] I've never sat down and learned licks per se. I've learned and transcribed tunes and solos,and invariably they contain licks which work their way into your vocabulary,but I've never learned just a lick by itself. Pretty much everyone plays licks,even guys who claim to improvise everything.Sure,they may not have taken a Marcus or a Brecker lick,but everyone has certain things that they play often that are their own lick.Some guys do it more obviously than others though. [/quote] That. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobematt Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I use licks a lot, probably about 50% of my soloing is licks. The main reason for this is how can I ever expect to sound like the musicians I most admire if I can't play what they play? I don't plan on using other peoples licks forever, just until I'm happy with my own sound I suppose. I remember seeing a Michael Brecker interview where he said when I was improvising on stage he wouldn't play anything he hadn't played 1000 times before. Meaning yeah, he uses licks! So that makes me feel a bit better about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Am I the only one who though this thread was going to be about Rudy Sarzo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yes, I think you are. Personally, I think the 'lick' thing tends to refer to those people who take a certain lick from a certain solo they have transcibed and then often play it whenever that chord sequence is present. You can get away with murder doing this but it lacks integrity and any decent player will spot it a mile off. I remember hearing players who used certain quotes in their solos regularly. If you hear it to often, though, it is actually easy to take the piss, musically. I recall a sax player in Cardiff who repeatedly played a lick out of Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue whenever he played a blues. On one gig, the piano player then incorporated another part of that tune in his solo and then I used a third part of it in mine. We all laughed good naturedly afterwards but I never heard him use that lick again. A lot of the stuff we learn sits in our vocabulary to be revisited as and when we need it. If you learn scales out of Simandl or Slonimsky or wherever, those patterns will inevitably appear in your playing. The secret is to use them creatively and not too often and not in the same place as last time and the time before that. We all have a limited vocabulary of English but can all say something fresh and original whenever the aardvark flogs you a compelling insurance carrot. You will use all of the constituent parts before but you just put them together in a fresh way. But don't udnereatimate the art of it. Playing improvised solos well is damn hard. It's not like learning 'Good Times' and regurgitating it again and again. It's about having a mind that 'hears' the ideas and then the chops to execute them instantly. The more I learn about it, the more I am amazed by the Joe Lovano's etc of this world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philparker Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yes, I use licks all the time, but I try and make them my own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1349777922' post='1830280'] Am I the only one who though this thread was going to be about [s]Rudy Sarzo[/s] Gene Simmons? [/quote] Fixed. Edited October 9, 2012 by paul_5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krysh Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 licks? I can't even remember what I played yesterday. but honestly usually I try to improvise but mostly fail trying to do something "new" since everything had been played somewhen somewhere before. but as long as I try to let the music flow and try not to think about it even simple licks can touch the people. it is not just about vocabulary, you don't even need a big one, but sensitivity, groove and expression. the licks don't help if you don't know how to give notes air to breathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1349780623' post='1830331'] Yes, I think you are. Personally, I think the 'lick' thing tends to refer to those people who take a certain lick from a certain solo they have transcibed and then often play it whenever that chord sequence is present. You can get away with murder doing this but it lacks integrity and any decent player will spot it a mile off. [/quote] That's what i was getting at with the lick thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alstocko Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Pure improviser, Miles made me that way. Licks make me feel like I'm living in the past, I want to be individual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 what's a lick ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Oh yes lick away. It doesn't matter how you accumulate your language - just use it tastefully. One of many tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Pure improviser, Miles made me that way. Licks make me feel like I'm living in the past, I want to be individual Pure improviser, Miles made me that way. Licks make me feel like I'm living in the past, I want to be individual Pure improviser, Miles made me that way. Licks make me feel like I'm living in the past, I want to be individual Pure improviser, Miles made me that way. Licks make me feel like I'm living in the past, I want to be individual Also, I never repeat anything. best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 As Krusty once said [i]"..if we can't copy other people's ideas where's all the original thinking going to come from?"[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobematt Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='alstocko' timestamp='1349804387' post='1830784'] Pure improviser, Miles made me that way. Licks make me feel like I'm living in the past, I want to be individual [/quote] I'm pretty sure Miles used licks too. From transcribing his solos I've seen a few crop up that are pretty much identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I`m an improviser as I dont know which lick I will use and when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='alstocko' timestamp='1349804387' post='1830784'] Pure improviser, Miles made me that way. Licks make me feel like I'm living in the past, I want to be individual [/quote] [quote name='lobematt' timestamp='1349872797' post='1831559'] I'm pretty sure Miles used licks too. From transcribing his solos I've seen a few crop up that are pretty much identical. [/quote] If you analyse or transcribe a number of solos from anyone,you will notice that they all use certain lines and phrases that are comfortable for them or that they can use of certain changes.Even 'groove' players have things that they regularly use.It doesn't matter if it's Miles,Jaco,Brecker,Metheny or anyone.These lines,or licks,are part of the players identity and they all use them even if they claim to improvise all the time. The problems come when other players learn these licks and spew them out endlessly.It's cool to add them to your vocabulary, and you should-take them and make them your own and let them be there for when they feel right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alstocko Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Not from mid-late career he didn't. I believe that players do relax into tendencies though, but this is different from learned licks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alstocko Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1349874939' post='1831611'] If you analyse or transcribe a number of solos from anyone,you will notice that they all use certain lines and phrases that are comfortable for them or that they can use of certain changes.Even 'groove' players have things that they regularly use.It doesn't matter if it's Miles,Jaco,Brecker,Metheny or anyone.These lines,or licks,are part of the players identity and they all use them even if they claim to improvise all the time. The problems come when other players learn these licks and spew them out endlessly.It's cool to add them to your vocabulary, and you should-take them and make them your own and let them be there for when they feel right. [/quote] +1 to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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