Beer of the Bass Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The phenomenon of musicians being asked to play for free has been much discussed on here. Check out this alarming new variation on the theme: [url="http://www.prefixmag.com/news/amanda-palmer-cant-afford-to-pay-her-backup-band/69017/"]http://www.prefixmag.com/news/amanda-palmer-cant-afford-to-pay-her-backup-band/69017/[/url] I feel like it would be acceptable if the gigs were for a non-profit project and didn't charge for admission, but that's not the case here. I find the sense of entitlement a bit grating - she's a fairly successful touring artist, and I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to budget for hiring musicians. If anything, it smacks of a publicity stunt, but I feel like it sets a dangerous precedent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Publicity stunt and not a very good one. Of course it can be written in a positive by her supporters as a way of 'blurring the boundaries between fans and artists'. I think it is taking advantage of musicians and another case of preferring to spend money on marketing rather than the artistic process itself. Frankly, I find the 'help me, I'm a poor struggling artist' angle to be incredibly weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Mmm, 1.2 Million Dollars (US) via crowdfunder and she's got no money to pay musicians to help her earn more money? Sounds a bit fishy to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Here's what she's asking; [url="http://www.amandapalmer.net/blog/20120821/"]http://www.amandapalmer.net/blog/20120821/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny B Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I've not read into this myself so have no opinion, but here's a Lefsetz blog post on the subject http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnozzalee Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Everytime I hear the name Amanda Palmer I just dismiss the conversation and leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I've never heard of her, and haven't missed her. Despite that, I'm not sure what the problem is here. She wants to crowd-source her band, night by night, in different cities on tour. She wants unpaid musicians. Put those together and you have a train-wreck of a band, comprising a mix of semi-pro and amateur musicians, of wildly varying standards, who have never rehearsed the songs and never even played together as a band. Hmmmm. I've been to a lot of jams that fit that description. Some of them have been highly entertaining, if only for the "wrong reasons". As a form of entertainment to take to the masses, this strikes me as a valid option. I have no interest at all in half-baked economic excuses for her actions (can't afford $35,000 having gained $1.2m) but I don't understand why anyone is feeling threatened by this. I may have to start paying attention to this woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 It will probably be passed off with the punk bullshit of hey its punk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 She's writtern some fine music and is very much into her music as performance art sort of stance. Done very well for herself as AFP and before that one of The Dresden Dolls. I think she's been clever in the past at trying to try new ideas all the time to avoid the issue of record company control, not sure how great this one is though. By the by she's married to Neil Gaimon, which is weird somehow..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorick Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 She can afford to fund a world tour, so what's happening to the money from ticket sales? Assuming people have bought any...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnacleBob Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Well the clue is in the name, I suppose. Many many moons ago the band I was in in was offered the support slot for Martha and the Muffins, a sprightly young pop combo of some note in that era, top ten in the hit parade and all that. Great, we thought! A fee of £400 is mentioned. Even better, we thought! "Ah, you misunderstand, my dears" says the promoter, adjusting his top hat and twirling one end of his moustache "YOU pay US the 400 clams or you aren't getting within 10 feet of that stage! And no, you can't use their drumkit!" We didn't do the gig :-( although we would have done it for nothing. BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1347607100' post='1802909'] Hmmmm. I've been to a lot of jams that fit that description. Some of them have been highly entertaining, if only for the "wrong reasons". [/quote] Where it differs from a jam night is that the musicians are being selected for ability from video demos and it's a reading gig, so very different from just turning up and joining in. These are ticketed gigs in medium capacity venues which are expected to sell out, so somebody somewhere is making money. If she was going round playing free gigs, Hawkwind style, I'd think it was a cool idea. We're all free not to apply, so as a one-off it doesn't bother me too much, but if the practice was to catch on, it would be bad news for a lot of working musicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I think she's great in the Dresen Dolls. After reading the link to her blog post, I would say the article in the OP puts a ridiculous spin on this. She's asking for fans to come and join in with a couple of songs. She has a paid up band who are on every date of the tour, but to create variety in every different city, she's doing this. It sounds like a great idea to me. If you get up on stage to play bass with one of your favorite bands at their gig, would you stay there until they wrote you a check? Or would you f*** off back into the audience and carry on enjoying yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 This has the potential to come badly unstuck for Ms Palmer. I would imagine that there is a good chance the string and brass players who are up for, and capable of playing, this kind of music in a particular town or city all know each other. Not too much stretch of the imagination to see them getting together and 10 minutes before show time demand paying upfront in cash otherwise they'll either not go on or play a semitone sharp throughout the performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) in that case she could just tell them to f*** off, as it's just for a small portion of the show (from what I understand from her blog) Edited September 14, 2012 by cheddatom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I wonder if, in the whole vastness of cyberspace, there's a little corner somewhere with a 'BuilderChat' forum where professional builders bleat on about DIYers? Do we really want to live in a world where absolutely everything we do is regulated, licenced and prescribed or do we want to libe in a world where people are pretty much free to do whatever they want and try new things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1347614610' post='1803002'] I wonder if, in the whole vastness of cyberspace, there's a little corner somewhere with a 'BuilderChat' forum where professional builders bleat on about DIYers? Do we really want to live in a world where absolutely everything we do is regulated, licenced and prescribed or do we want to libe in a world where people are pretty much free to do whatever they want and try new things? [/quote] I'm not sure I can make any sense of what you're trying to say here. Who's calling for anything to be "regulated, licensed and prescribed"? Who is trying to restrict freedoms? Ms Palmer is free to do what she's doing, musicians are free to apply for the gig or not, and anyone is free to discuss their reservations about the idea. Come to think of it, in the absence of any contract agreement, the musicians doing the gig are also free to ignore the score and play atonal nonsense until the soundman turns them down and security bundle them off the stage! I wonder if this will happen at any of the gigs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 You suggested that musicians choosing to play for free or being asked to pay for free is an alarming trend. I'm merely suggesting that this is the sort of thing that can happen in a free world and that we'd actually be worse off if it couldn't happen. I'm sorry my clumsy builders analogy didn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1347616376' post='1803020'] You suggested that musicians choosing to play for free or being asked to pay for free is an alarming trend. I'm merely suggesting that this is the sort of thing that can happen in a free world and that we'd actually be worse off if it couldn't happen. I'm sorry my clumsy builders analogy didn't make sense. [/quote] Fair enough. My own thoughts on the matter are not so much "This must be stopped, we must Legislate!" but rather more "Hmm, I don't like where this seems to be leading". I think a bit of a criticism is to be expected with a move like Ms Palmers, and I'm interested to see how it plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 You could always get the gig and work your best at ruining it as revenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 [quote name='BarnacleBob' timestamp='1347612196' post='1802967'] Well the clue is in the name, I suppose. Many many moons ago the band I was in in was offered the support slot for Martha and the Muffins, a sprightly young pop combo of some note in that era, top ten in the hit parade and all that. Great, we thought! A fee of £400 is mentioned. Even better, we thought! "Ah, you misunderstand, my dears" says the promoter, adjusting his top hat and twirling one end of his moustache "YOU pay US the 400 clams or you aren't getting within 10 feet of that stage! And no, you can't use their drumkit!" We didn't do the gig :-( although we would have done it for nothing. BB [/quote] That happens often with support slots and festivals. The band or their management pay a nice some of money and it gets them on the bill. With regards to Amanda Palmer,I think the problem is that she's asking for 'professional-ish' musicians to play for 'hugs/high fives and merch'. If she wants professionals then she should either carry them with her (in which case,she'd have to pay them) or hire them town by town (in which case she'd have to pay them). Surely if you are organising a tour,this is an important part of your budget? As it is she's hoping that people will play for the kudos,and I'm assuming that she doesn't overly care about the quality of the players (if she did,then she would hire the players,not beg for freebies). I'd never heard of her until I read about this a couple of days ago,although I'd heard of The Dresden Dolls,so it could all be just another well thought out publicity stunt (like the kickstarter thing),because a lot of people are talking about her now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Someone missed a trick here. Obviously she can't afford musicians because she's getting no money from CDs due to file sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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