Fender Jazz -to preamp or not to preamp?

[SlapbassSteve]

Hi all,

Saw my old bass teacher yesterday and he recommended I install a preamp of some sort in my MiM '02 Fender Jazz. I've been really happy with the tone from it, but would be interested in upgrading the electronics so I can boost top/bottom as required. I've heard Artec do some good budget ones(particularly the SE2-A), is there anything similar that's any good or is that my best bet? Preferably where I can keep the three knobs original style rather then chrome, and really ideally where I don't have to start removing precious weight by routing the cavity.

Any thoughts?

Cheers!

[JTUK]

[size=5][sup]John East U-retro will do exactly what you want... and make the bass active/passive and with a mid sweep.[/sup][/size]
[size=5][sup]or you could use a sadwosky outboard pedal and Ag Tone hammer.[/sup][/size]

[size=5][sup]The key to all this working well, IMO, is that you don't HAVE to do it to get a good useable sound and it can just enhance the inherrent good sounds you already have.[/sup][/size]

[size=5][sup]I had east's on both my basses and they just add more of the same ...but if you aren't careful, you can go mad and screw the sound should you feel that way inclined.[/sup][/size]

[deanovw]

I use a Sadowsky pedal with my Jazz bass. It is awesome.

I have a DI out, tuner out and mute footswitch as well as the awesome Sadowsky pre-amp.

[mckendrick]

[quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1340219381' post='1701362']
Hi all,

Saw my old bass teacher yesterday and he recommended I install a preamp of some sort in my MiM '02 Fender Jazz. I've been really happy with the tone from it, but would be interested in upgrading the electronics so I can boost top/bottom as required. I've heard Artec do some good budget ones(particularly the SE2-A), is there anything similar that's any good or is that my best bet? Preferably where I can keep the three knobs original style rather then chrome, and really ideally where I don't have to start removing precious weight by routing the cavity.

Any thoughts?

Cheers!
[/quote]
Don't alter the bass. Use a Sadowsky or Sans Amp outboard.

[BigRedX]

What's wrong with the tone controls on your amp?

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

i'd keep the bass passive & use a preamp pedal - a behringer bdi21 v-tone preamp pedal/di will probably be comparable in price to the unit you're looking at

Edited June 21, 2012 by Jean-Luc Pickguard

[krysh]

well, difficult question, since the pros and cons probably are equal and it depends on the existing tone of your instrument.
in my 2 custom jazzes I have an obp3 (active/passive switchable) and an only active audere in the other one.
both sound great, but a little bit I miss the possibility to switch the audere to passive - until I use it .
I'd suggest to go with a tonehammer or sadowsky pedal first and if you really dig the tone then get a preamp installed.
but if you do that, you should only use a high quality one like aguilar, nordstrand, audere, glockenklang, john east, etc...
everything else might not be worth it.

[mcnach]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1340260428' post='1701729']
What's wrong with the tone controls on your amp?
[/quote]


it really cracks me up when this question gets asked (and invariably it does) when someone asks whether to install an onboard preamp.

Two points:
- EQ structures: the voicing in your amp and the particular onboard of your choice are likely to be very different. You may choose an onboard preamp because of its particular voice
- onboard. Right there at your fingertips. You may not care and play with one sound all night. Some actually like to have more control at their fingertips, without running back to the amp or footswitchable presets or whathaveyou.

Whatever works for you, however!

[mcnach]

[quote name='the_krysh' timestamp='1340262126' post='1701745']
well, difficult question, since the pros and cons probably are equal and it depends on the existing tone of your instrument.
in my 2 custom jazzes I have an obp3 (active/passive switchable) and an only active audere in the other one.
both sound great, but a little bit I miss the possibility to switch the audere to passive - until I use it .
I'd suggest to go with a tonehammer or sadowsky pedal first and if you really dig the tone then get a preamp installed.
but if you do that, you should only use a high quality one like aguilar, nordstrand, audere, glockenklang, john east, etc...
everything else might not be worth it.
[/quote]


I'd agree.

Artec preamps work, but they don't really offer anything extraordinary. In addition they have a big block of a preamp, unlikely you'lll fit that plus battery in a Jazz control cavity without modification.
My personal favourite for a Jazz is the J-Retro. More expensive yes, but it really gives you a lot of control. The mid sweep in particular is very cool. You could even just buy the mid sweep module alone. It'll fit without alterations, but the knobs will not be the originals as it uses concentric dual pots and knobs.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1340264485' post='1701769']
it really cracks me up when this question gets asked (and invariably it does) when someone asks whether to install an onboard preamp.

Two points:
- EQ structures: the voicing in your amp and the particular onboard of your choice are likely to be very different. You may choose an onboard preamp because of its particular voice
- onboard. Right there at your fingertips. You may not care and play with one sound all night. Some actually like to have more control at their fingertips, without running back to the amp or footswitchable presets or whathaveyou.

Whatever works for you, however!
[/quote]

1. The EQ structure would be a fair point if people actually looked at it, but AFAICS most don't. They buy the pre-amp that's cheap or easiest to fit rather than considering if the EQ centres are going to complement the overall sound of the bass. I can see the point of the pre-amp in MM bases because it's tuned to enhance the sound of the bass with its particular pickup. Also there are some pre-amps that offer features not found on the amp like filters or being able to EQ each pick up separately and these again are useful. However a set of generic EQ centre points on a circuit designed mostly to be able to fit in the average sized control cavity and run of a 9V battery not so much.

2. The controls might be near my finger tips but when I'm playing, I'm too busy to be fiddling with EQ controls. In between songs my amp is just as easily accessible.

Most f this was brought home when I fitted a J-Retro to my short-lived Squier VMJ. While it didn't make the bass sound any worse, it didn't make much of an improvement either and didn't do anything for me that another 15 minutes playing with the gain and EQ on my amp could achieve.

[Paul S]

I am also a fan of on-board eq rather than amp fiddling. I fitted an Artec SE-2A into my Fender Precision Lyte as the stock one was faulty. It sounded ok. I upgraded to a J. East one and it completely opened up the range of sounds that are available out of it. So in my case, at least, and with a direct comparison, I discovered that 'you get what you pay for'.

[chris_b]

[quote name='mckendrick' timestamp='1340244086' post='1701705']
....Don't alter the bass. Use a Sadowsky or Sans Amp outboard....
[/quote]

+1

The real question is why, if you are happy with your sound, do you want to throw that all away and change it to something completely different?

I have upgraded a passive bass to active and I think the difference is overrated.

+1 for the Sadowsky Outboard Bass Preamp.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1340264781' post='1701778']
I'd agree.

Artec preamps work, but they don't really offer anything extraordinary. In addition they have a big block of a preamp, unlikely you'lll fit that plus battery in a Jazz control cavity without modification.
My personal favourite for a Jazz is the J-Retro. More expensive yes, but it really gives you a lot of control. The mid sweep in particular is very cool. You could even just buy the mid sweep module alone. It'll fit without alterations, but the knobs will not be the originals as it uses concentric dual pots and knobs.
[/quote]

I managed to instal a SE2-A on a VM '77 Jazz that i upgraded, it wasn't easy though, very tight fit and a headache to replace battery and fit it all back again. Tonewise i totally agree with you, the Artec isn't a bad preamp, it's very clean and useable but it offers very little improvement to the bass's sound, the bass and high controls on the amp do the same as that preamp, no character or timbre improvement.

[gjones]

I have a J-retro and it doesn't make my bass sound any better than if I just tweaked the controls on my amp. I bought it to make it easier to alter the sound of my bass between songs and to be able to adjust my sound while I was standing out front at soundcheck. If you have a problem with the sound of your bass I think upgrading your pickups would be the better option.

Edited June 21, 2012 by gjones

[krysh]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1340274342' post='1701995']...upgrading your pickups would be the better oiption.
[/quote]
...and even more if you just change your strings to a different make.

[JTUK]

[sup][size=5]The assumption appears to be that the sound will be changed dramatically but this is not what you want to be chasing...and AIUI the OP wants more of the same as passive but with a bit of onboard control which the East is perfect for. As I said tone shaping is very wide, but you don't often go there... the sweep stays the same and the bass and treble are slightly boosted at the flick of the fingers..in the middle of the song. I find this very useful..as I am always changing around the bess track to make it interesting..if mainly for me..!![/size][/sup]

[sup][size=5]These things can have +-15bd across the range which can ruin the sound ...[/size][/sup]
[sup][size=5]Just imagine a MM with controls all the way up and you'll get what I mean... not many can carry that off...and if they do..I'd suggest they have seriously marked down the Eq on the amp to cope..!![/size][/sup]

[sup][size=5]I use pre's to enhance what the bass is sounding like..and I have 3 styles I need to make work... and I can do all 3 with one switch....and I may have to dull down the presene control but that is all.[/size][/sup]
[sup][size=5]All this I can do mid track. You don't want to go hunting for sounds by having to make sweeping freq changes as that means set-up and sound check have been a complete waste of time[/size][/sup]
[sup][size=5]and you don't want to have to be searching from an extreme range to get back to somewhere like normal..[/size][/sup]

[sup][size=5]The most crucial element to my sound is how much life there is left in the strings and if the strings are on the side of fresh, then soundschecks are literally a couple of minutes...[/size][/sup]
[sup][size=5]Then once we start, I might find I am a tad under-over cooked within the mix..and I'll sort it ..[/size][/sup]

[sup][size=5]KISS..!![/size][/sup]

[SlapbassSteve]

Cheers for the replies folks!

Sounds like my best bet is a Behringer/Sadowsky/Sansamp outboard of some description - Looks a tad more expensive for the better ones but it'd be good to be able to use it with some of my other basses too and not just the jazz. Probably less temptation to fiddle during a set and just have a consistent sound too!

[BottomE]

Yeah go for it - why not?

Outboard i have tried most of the posher stuff and would recommend the Sadowsky. Built like a tank and it will last you forever.
Onboard there are solutions that don't involve soldering. Just add a new control plate to the bass with all the stuff built in and solderless connections. Audere do a good one as do John East.

Good luck

[ead]

I've been experimenting with an ACG 02 pre in my fretless jazz. The filter based EQ is something else and, for me, more convenient than changing my amp settings - which can't do what this little pre amp can do!

[LukeFRC]

it's nice your bass teacher recommends it..... but what for? Does your band need it?
It seems to me to be throwing money at a problem that doesn't exist.

[mcnach]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1340269773' post='1701871']
1. The EQ structure would be a fair point if people actually looked at it, but AFAICS most don't. They buy the pre-amp that's cheap or easiest to fit rather than considering if the EQ centres are going to complement the overall sound of the bass. I can see the point of the pre-amp in MM bases because it's tuned to enhance the sound of the bass with its particular pickup. Also there are some pre-amps that offer features not found on the amp like filters or being able to EQ each pick up separately and these again are useful. However a set of generic EQ centre points on a circuit designed mostly to be able to fit in the average sized control cavity and run of a 9V battery not so much.

2. The controls might be near my finger tips but when I'm playing, I'm too busy to be fiddling with EQ controls. In between songs my amp is just as easily accessible.

Most f this was brought home when I fitted a J-Retro to my short-lived Squier VMJ. While it didn't make the bass sound any worse, it didn't make much of an improvement either and didn't do anything for me that another 15 minutes playing with the gain and EQ on my amp could achieve.
[/quote]

I agree with 1 to some extent (most people don't look for the sound of a particular preamp, but just fit whatever they find convenient), and 2 is a matter of personal need/preference, so fair enough.
But I'd use the J-Retro as an example of a "special" preamp. It has the mid sweep control... which is very very useful and I whilst you can use soemthing similar in pedal form, or in teh shape of a semiparametric tone control in your amp... I love it at my fingertips.
Same preamp... two different experiences, yours and mine.

It's all fine, whatever works... but asking someone who wants a preamp "what's wrong with your amp's controls" is not very useful. Because they do but they don't do the same thing.

[mcnach]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1340273638' post='1701976']
I have upgraded a passive bass to active and I think the difference is overrated.

[/quote]


It is not an "upgrade". It is a modification. Not intrinsically better or worse. It's different. And sometimes, not very different at all.

Edited June 21, 2012 by mcnach

[mcnach]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1340274342' post='1701995']
I have a J-retro and it doesn't make my bass sound any better than if I just tweaked the controls on my amp. I bought it to make it easier to alter the sound of my bass between songs and to be able to adjust my sound while I was standing out front at soundcheck. If you have a problem with the sound of your bass I think upgrading your pickups would be the better option.
[/quote]

You didn't find the mid sweep useful?
Not many amps offer something like it.

My gripe with the J-Retro is that it colours the sound even when you set it "flat". Flat does not really exist with that preamp (but it does with others), and I really like a passive Jazz sound. But even then, I love the oomph and versatility it gives me. But I could use just the mid sweep module and be happy, to be perfectly honest. I use that a lot.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1340291996' post='1702413']
It's all fine, whatever works... but asking someone who wants a preamp "what's wrong with your amp's controls" is not very useful. Because they do but they don't do the same thing.
[/quote]

I just think that sometimes people don't fully think through the reasons for fitting (or not) a pre amp in their bass. I would hazard that unless the controls on your amp are very subtle or the EQ points aren't sympathetic to the bass (in which case you've either got the wrong amp or the wrong bass for you) that the amp should be able to do everything that built in pre amp can and then some. It's far easier to build an effective and musical sounding EQ when you're not constrained with having to fit it into a typical bass guitar and power for a decent length of time off a PP3 battery.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1340281066' post='1702181']
it's nice your bass teacher recommends it..... but what for? Does your band need it?
It seems to me to be throwing money at a problem that doesn't exist.
[/quote]

Yeah, this really. Have a look at the little video by John East about his preamps. Great bass player, makes the 'before' sound great to my ears. If you really think its worthwhile having the 'after' then go for it.

You get the choice of the original sound (preamp 'off') if you want it still, some say something is 'lost' with a preamp which I can understand, but just switch it off.