Guitarist recorded over my parts :(

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1338411155' post='1674307']
It's easy if you have a decent laptop. Not expensive either. It's a lot easier and cost/time effective if you the sorts of constraints the OP has, and he wants to do sessions right?
[/quote]

Well ok it can be very cheap depending on your moral standards. You have to know what you're doing though. You've got to spend a lot of time tweaking things like guitar rig to get them to sound good.

[xilddx]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1338453718' post='1674683']
Well ok it can be very cheap depending on your moral standards. You have to know what you're doing though. You've got to spend a lot of time tweaking things like guitar rig to get them to sound good.
[/quote]
Well hey! Welcome the the world of the musician, where you sort of need to be a little bit competent.

[charic]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1338454808' post='1674708']
Well hey! Welcome the the world of the musician, where you sort of need to be a little bit competent.
[/quote]

Or a drummer

[51m0n]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1338411276' post='1674309']
Just remember, Anthony Jackson got turned down for a gig once because he uses a seat whilst he plays.

If Anthony Jackson can be snubbed for a gig it figures that we will all be mugged off by an idiot band leader at some point.
[/quote]

He did it [i]all [/i]the pies first though.....


I still haven't forgiven him, greedy beggar!

[daz]

Sounds like the Foo fighters all over again.

[charic]

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1338455786' post='1674728']
Sounds like the Foo fighters all over again.
[/quote]

And it got them nowhere

[karlfer]

Covers band bassist says nowt shocker .
Hah, done some of that there recording stuff, all about the song, the team, the geezer calling the shots. If creative is asked for be creative.
Then back to the Dog and Duck on Saturday being grateful people actually still listen and dance (and occasional boobies flash ) at my age.

[TimR]

It's all part of working with artists. If a painter want's the sky painted blue, it's not going to be easy for him to tell you which shade of blue. At least with music someone can write down some basic dots or chord structure and you can work on that. We've all been in the situation where we've been told - just stick to the roots. Only later to be told that one of the notes we're playing is wrong - "Well yes, that's because you told me to play roots...."

It works both ways, as I said earlier, and will maintain, there are a lot of guitarists who think they can play bass. It seems to be more common and I wonder if this is why 'good' Bass players are apparently so difficult to find. I've seen 3 bands this year where I've not thought much of the bass player, only to see the guitarist and 'bass player' swap roles at the break and been even worse. So that's 6 guitarists that can't play bass I've seen this year, and doesn't include guitarists who picked up my bass during practices to 'show me how it goes'

We bass players have either got it horribly wrong, or a lot of guitarists don't actually know what the role of the bass player is. At least we can be fairly sure that as this guy used to be a bass player he has an idea of what he wants.

But, hey, it's music, it's an art-form, there's no wrong and right.

Edited May 31, 2012 by TimR

[BigRedX]

It's pretty much all been said already in this thread and without hearing the actual recordings it's impossible to give any decent specific advice. Besides it's all subjective in the end.

However from a purely business PoV it appears from what you've posted that the guitarist has put a fairly serious financial stake into this project, so if it was me playing the bass parts unless I was going to put in a similar amount and get a proper legal agreement to the fact that this "band" is a partnership, I'd have be prepared to live with the fact that ultimately what I do may or may not end up on the finished product.

There's several ways that this could end up. The final recording could be shockingly bad and you can be thankful that you're not actually on it anymore. Or it could be fantastic and the band could be destined for bigger things, in which case take what you can get. You'll have learnt something about how the music business and songwriting/recording process works, and if the songs are better with the new bass parts then hopefully you'll have learnt something about arranging too.

Oh and BTW unless the recording is strictly old school onto tape, they won't have recorded [i][b]over[/b][/i] your parts. They'll have just recorded some new parts and left yours off the mix.

[JTUK]

I can't see much right and wrong in all this as this is how things work...for good or bad.
There could have bee more diplomacy and the OP did put himself out, to quite some degree, but I am surprised that people are surprised this stuff happens.

Music is notoriously self serving..and even more so when money gets involved...and maybe it needs to be to get these unworkable things off the ground..
You just have to knock it up as experience. and see if you want to repair the damage.... or if indeed he does.

As for the bass parts... he called them as not appropriate on HIS project... they didn't work, weren't good enough or any number of other reasons.
Use the knock back as a positive once you get over the denting of pride to get used to someone directing your parts..if you want to be called often.

The up side to being able to do this..is that you get known for being a quick study...and you get finished quicker..and everyone loves people who save money of recording costs.
You treated it as a labour of love..got no thanks for it...instead of a job.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1338457823' post='1674761']
But, hey, it's music, it's an art-form, there's no wrong and right.
[/quote]

Seems as good a summary as any other I can think of.

Whoever has creative control calls the shots and, inevitably, not everyone will always lke them. Just the way it is.

If you don't like it, take the lead on your own project and do your own thing. You'll probably upset someone though.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1338458062' post='1674766']
Or it could be fantastic and the band could be destined for bigger things, in which case take what you can get. You'll have learnt something about how the music business and songwriting/recording process works, and if the songs are better with the new bass parts then hopefully you'll have learnt something about arranging too.
[/quote]

And, on an equally hopeful note, you won't have pissed on your chips e-mailing the songwriter the other day. Otherwise we'll need a new thread.

[El Bajo]

Didn't get a reply from my email the other day so thought I'd call him to get the low down. Turns out he's been stressing about it ever since he made the changes and feels awful about it. Now I feel bad for posting hehe.

It seems a few things where different once everything was down. The drums where changed slightly and the singer sung his parts differently. The fiddly parts I'd put in filled space because In my opinion something needed to be there but he felt they clashed or stuck out so he made the call and recorded some straight roots.

Anyway he sent me a veerrrryyyy rough mix of one of the songs, the drums where way too high so I couldn't really pick out the guitars and bass to well. It sounds fine, but I do think some of my lines, not all mind, but some could have added value but ah well. I don't think any of my parts are in this one However on a positive note It will just make my life easier when I play the song live

And yes I'm very much in the band. Onwards and Upwards

Apologies if I haven't responded to many of your posts, some very valid points have been raised and I could literally write an essay on the band, myself and the whole situation but i don't want to bore you. I am just an average guy that's played in my bedroom for the last 13 years and decided to just go for it and join a band...I got lucky with this one. So if I come across as a noob, or naive it because I am!

[xilddx]

Well done for growing a bag and making the call. It's all about the comms. Wasn't as bad as you thought right?

Anyway, if you are now in a signed band, and haven't been in a band before (congratulations BTW), you may need to consider such things as tool kit, spare stuff, routines, etc etc. I'm sure you'll be fine, but ask on here. Best to be on the safe side

Glad it's all worked out. Remember to leave your ego and sh*t in the bedroom, serve the song, support your bandleader, be nice to be around, keep that new bag clean and hygienic, you'll be ok.

Cool!

[12stringbassist]

All turned out a bit more towards ok then.
More chance to make the NEXT recordings a real band effort.

Good luck.

Ian (also from Bolton)

Edited May 31, 2012 by 12stringbassist

[Booooooom]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1338395431' post='1673925']
Sorry but you raised this at eight this morning and have sent an e-mail by three this afternoon. IMHO that's not enough time to sort out how you really feel about this and to let you temper cool and your brain take over. However what is done is done and I just hope you haven't burnt your chances of doing what (down the road) you realise you should/could have done.

Cooling off periods are a great idea and give everyone time to step back before something drastic happens. I wonder how many bands have split because they've had band meetings straight after a crap gig rather than twenty four hours later?

Steve
[/quote]

This thread has been an entertaining read with some wise points made (especially regarding communication) but if everyone took heed of Oggiesnr's well made post, a lot of stress and resentment would be avoided.

I'm sure you were hurt and angry but 'counting to ten' and then talking directly and openly to your friend/guitarist/bandleader rather than publically voicing your feelings would have avoided a potentially disastrous situation occurring (plenty of guitarists read Basschat!).

Sounds like all you've really lost is the pride and bragging rights associated with being on the recording. Remember that you were part of the process getting there and, as has been pointed out elsewhere, eleventh hour changes in the studio (or anywhere) for the benefit of the song (or anything) and subsequent reworking often leave someone feeling a little frustrated/deflated. It doesnt mean that you didn't contribute or are being passed over/ignored. At least you still have the opportunity to participate in the future.

Glad it's all resolved but we always need to learn from our experiences..

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Booooooom' timestamp='1338508781' post='1675759']
I'm sure you were hurt and angry but 'counting to ten' and then talking directly and openly to your friend/guitarist/bandleader rather than publically voicing your feelings would have avoided a potentially disastrous situation occurring (plenty of guitarists read Basschat!).
[/quote]

I tend to stick things like this in the off topic which non members cannae see

[discreet]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1338505663' post='1675732']
...leave your ego and sh*t in the bedroom, serve the song, support your bandleader, be nice to be around, keep that new bag clean and hygienic, and you'll be OK...
[/quote]

Such excellent advice.

[chrismuzz]

Just an aside, in my old band the guitarist referred to my bass tracks as 'the worst piece of sh*t he's ever heard in his life'. So it could be worse

EDIT: Wow I just found one of the tracks on Myspace! Check out the worst (and probably quietest) bass playing in the world right here! [url="http://www.myspace.com/ukscorchedearth/music/songs/we-stand-alone-52978047"]http://www.myspace.com/ukscorchedearth/music/songs/we-stand-alone-52978047[/url]

(The guitarist mixed it, he truly is a genius)

Edited June 1, 2012 by chrismuzz

[JTUK]

All good then... . and you can move on.

The best thing this site ever teaches you...above ALL else, is to step back and consider and don't go steaming in too quickly.

[El Bajo]

[quote name='12stringbassist' timestamp='1338506789' post='1675743']
All turned out a bit more towards ok then.
More chance to make the NEXT recordings a real band effort.

Good luck.

Ian (also from Bolton)
[/quote]

I know, I clocked you a while back Seen you a couple of times playing in Kerbcrawlers, good band!

[El Bajo]

Thanks all for the advice, its been really appreciated, especially you sildxx

[karlfer]

Aha, 12stringbassist = Kerbcrawlers, noted

[CS2]

[quote name='El Bajo' timestamp='1338503068' post='1675698']

I am just an average guy that's [b]played in my bedroom for the last 13 years[/b] and decided to just go for it and join a band...I got lucky with this one. So if I come across as a noob, or naive it because I am!
[/quote]

Before I comment I'll give some background. I've played bass and guitar (yes both) in bands since 1980. I've been a sideman, dictator and part of a democracy on both instruments. I've overplayed and stopped people from overplaying.

As sideman, my reading of this situation is that it is the guitarist's 'trainset' and he gets to do what he wants. If that's acceptable I'll stay, if not I'll walk. I once played in a band where the singer broke up the band and went solo... with the same band. He would play on most of the tracks and used a synth bass for all but one or two tracks on each CD. He admitted that he had replaced tracks with the old 'leave your stuff here' ploy and used their gear to replace parts often using their lines. I never left gear in his home studio. I played with him for a number of years. We did interesting gigs including a prison. It was fun.

Before that, I played live with a guy for 3 years and never played on an album, all synth or producer played bass lines. Again, he got interesting gigs including a football stadium.

Playing with each person, often for free, taught me various things regarding gigging etc. I didn't get paid but I learnt a lot and didnt pay for the 'lessons'.

As a songwriter/bandleader, the red flag to me is the bedroom bit. I've played with them and in my experience, they've got all the technique and can nail a recorded part in double quick time. However playing live IMHO is about communicating with other musicians. I think of it as a line from me to the other musicians. I've played with very talented instrument operators who contribute nothing to the band and look bored. I've played with people who couldnt name the notes or chords who played well with others and adapted their lines to fit the music.

I have no ambition for my 'solo' music, the last gig was at a party in May and the one before that was on the back of a lorry in a pub garden in 2004. Many of my friends don't like it and many musicians dont want to be involved. Even though, I am very protective of it (it may be crap but it's my crap) and I would rather record the bass myself than let someone 'have fun' on it (forgot sho typed that). I've used two bass players, one who is the best I've ever met and the other who has an amzing attitude and considers himself not very good. However both constantly walk on that fine line between too busy and too sparse.

In summary...

Anyone can operate a bass, learn how to make music on it. (This is a reminder to self as much as anything else)

[flyfisher]

This has been an interesting thread and just proves how much this music lark is a 'people thing' as much as a music thing, probably more so in fact.

But, after all the discussion, I reckon silddx boiled it all down to the best statement:

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1338505663' post='1675732']
Glad it's all worked out. Remember to leave your ego and sh*t in the bedroom, serve the song, support your bandleader, [size=5][b]be nice to be around[/b][/size], keep that new bag clean and hygienic, you'll be ok.
[/quote]

Add that to my other favourite mantra of 'do no harm' and I'd say it's a pretty good principle for life in general.