El Bajo Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1338396265' post='1673942'] I typed it on my BB and missed your other posts saying you didn't really do this, that and the other. Stop being rubbish on the phone. You are not a 12 year old. If you are seriously considering a career in music, you are going to have to deal with comms in all its forms. Someone talks you down on the blower, you clam up and agree to all sorts of sh*t you can't deliver, you will get a crap rep very swiftly. Get some help, and follow it. I suppose I should add that someone saying they're sh*te on the phone, and then complaining about comms from their bandleader makes my shake my head and chuckle a bit [/quote] Yeah I know. My job is actually in sales hehe so from a business perspective I'm ok, its just that we're friends also so i guess I'm blurring the lines a little which from experience is never a good thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Bajo Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1338399148' post='1674000'] There's a lot of posts which I haven't read yet BUT you do need to get down to the nitty gritty and find out why he re-recorded your tracks. Because if he doesn't like your playing you may as well find out now rather than when he introduces you to the new bass player the day before the band starts the european tour. Because if it happened to me I'd assume the writing was on the wall. [/quote] Yeah I do, I'mm seeing the producer on Friday because he's returning a bass so I'll ask him about it too I'm going to ask for more feedback in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='El Bajo' timestamp='1338403291' post='1674111'] Yeah I know. My job is actually in sales hehe so from a business perspective I'm ok, its just that we're friends also so i guess I'm blurring the lines a little which from experience is never a good thing to do. [/quote] He's your friend and he won't listen to you on the blower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG3 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1338402547' post='1674083'] Why do you think he's an arse? Feel like what? [/quote] The fact in the OP he said he feels like a failure as a bassist which is why i said he shouldn't be made to feel like that and to me it sounds like the guitarist is an arse for making him feel this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1338401738' post='1674064'] You know something, the older I get the more I see that as an admirable quality, that every band needs someone like that. [/quote] Indeed. Much rather play with others on merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) I'm in a situation at the moment where my band will be going into the studio to record soon. Some of the songs I wrote from the ground up, and every guitar/bass and instrumental part is there to compliment the other. Our bass player hasnt learned my parts as I wrote them, and I'm ok with that live, but for our record, if the parts going down aren't right (they dont necessarily have to be as I wrote them, but they must work with the other parts and invoke the same emotional response) then I will be tracking them myself. I'm hoping that it wont be an issue and wont come to that - the ideal scenario is for each member of the band to just get it, but it doesnt always work out that way. As a songwriter I find it incredibly difficult to compromise on what are essentially my babies. I'm not sure if that makes me an arse or not. Probably. Edited May 30, 2012 by Wil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I can't add anything to this that silddx hasn't already totally nailed. And even though I enjoy a bit of a 6 string fap-fest, I know when it is and isn't appropriate. However the guy should have told you he was going to re-record the parts first in my opinion. Other than that I don't see what he's done wrong if it's his music. If you want to play more technical and interesting parts why not try getting a prog band on the go... people are always looking for bassists who do more than root notes, you've just gotta find em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='S9_S12_Bass' timestamp='1338405489' post='1674157'] The fact in the OP he said he feels like a failure as a bassist which is why i said he shouldn't be made to feel like that and to me it sounds like the guitarist is an arse for making him feel this way. [/quote] I don't see it that way. The OP said he tried to be 'clever' and that he knew the guitarist would have laid down simpler lines that were 'in the pocket'. The fact he's had some of his work re-recorded by the guitarist (who is his mate and also a decent bassist) doesn't mean the OP is a failure. The OP has chosen to feel this way, the guitarist did NOT make him feel this way. We have a choice about how we feel about things, the OP decided to feel a bit like a failure. I've had this situation too. A producer replaced or augmented my bass with synth bass on some songs on an album I recorded a few years ago. You know what, he made great decisions, those songs sounded 'right' that way, they sounded 'better'. I could have felt like a failure, I could have been pissed off, I could have barked and squeaked about the effort I put in to get those lines right and how I wasted my time in a f***ing studio recording them, been angry that any radio play won't generate PPL for me .. But I didn't. I decided much earlier that for me to realise my musical potential, I must recognise the song is king, and the songwriter's and producer's decisions are the right ones, and I am there as a MUSICIAN and NOT there as a bassist or guitarist, to help them realise their vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 ... or become the songwriter, eh? I see this thread hasn't moved on, lads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1338408216' post='1674231'] ... or become the songwriter, eh? I see this thread hasn't moved on, lads [/quote] I think the OP admitted he couldn't come close to the guitarist in terms of songwriting ability. Musicians, try writing and orchestrating a song, spend time on it getting it right, reflecting your thoughts and personality, and see how much you feel like letting someone 'have fun' with it. Edited May 30, 2012 by silddx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1338408331' post='1674233'] Musicians, try writing and orchestrating a song, spend time on it getting it right, reflecting your thoughts and personality, and see how much you feel like letting someone 'have fun' with it [/quote] +1 (although without the smiley). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1338409190' post='1674257'] +1 (although without the smiley). [/quote] Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Phone? E-mail? Playing in the pocket? Songwriting? I can heal our collective soul, Basschat. I just need... I just need... ... a montage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7D8E-zvZew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 so let me get this right..... You are a bass player of a large number of years. Talented and able to write 'clever' lines. You normally play prog and play a 6 string bass. he is a very very talented musician. former bass player, now guitarist and songwriter. He plays punk type bass and writes kinda poppy simple metal songs. You hang out and work on songs, he pays for a big recording session himself to record these songs. You (and for very good reason) can only make a day of the session and record the lines you wrote on some of the songs. as it turns out the songwriter listening back doesn't like your lines and rerecords them. Meanwhile the 'band' get signed. my questions... 1) given the different musical backgrounds, and the fact they are his songs- why are you surprised? 2) this is somewhat unrelated.... but.... what is your role in this band in the future going to be? This fella seems to stick a lot of cash behind his dream and his talent, you have work and family commitments. When the band leader and the label wants to take the band on tour of europe for a month- what will you do then? If he's that good, are you going to make the commitment to follow? (I will add also at this point that I think it's far better to put family before any rock and roll dream.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='AttitudeCastle' timestamp='1338409893' post='1674275'] Working in a band is all about give and take, yes this guitarist wrote the majority of the music and landed in a position of success so should be allowed more control and "take" but if he wanted a part to be different or changed, would it really be too difficult to ask "Can we do things more like this?" Or to outline "This is for me, this is my music and I'm asking you to be part of that help me to help you" sort of thing. Obviously Silddx you work and earn from bass almost for sure more than me and have more experience than me in that field but as a musician that's my view and I understand to work as a musician there are many times when you to do what you're told to make sure you earn your keep and your place. [/quote] It seems to me the OP may not have the wherewithall to record at home and fly in rerecorded parts by file transfer to be dropped in to the DAW. Otherwise he would not have needed to go all the way to Bradford to record, and book days off etc. I earn naff all from music. I have a nice well paid day job thank you, so I only need to play with bands I love, playing music I love. Music costs ME money, although I do have one pro gig but I love the gig anyway and it doesn't pay much as gigs are infrequent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 It's nice to be able to record your own parts at home if possible but having the capability of getting a decent sounding recording at home is not always possible for most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1338410803' post='1674300'] It's nice to be able to record your own parts at home if possible but having the capability of getting a decent sounding recording at home is not always possible for most people. [/quote] It's easy if you have a decent laptop. Not expensive either. It's a lot easier and cost/time effective if you the sorts of constraints the OP has, and he wants to do sessions right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Just remember, Anthony Jackson got turned down for a gig once because he uses a seat whilst he plays. If Anthony Jackson can be snubbed for a gig it figures that we will all be mugged off by an idiot band leader at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Pretty much everything I write and record at home I end up ditching the bassline that I have spent hours noodling around with, pulling out my moog and making fat synthy low noises instead. One day I will learn to do this at the start and not d*ck about with a bass guitar for so long at the start. With my current gig, I am teaching the songwriter to shout at me when I do stuff she doesn't like, as she is only 15, and is understandably a bit cautious when it comes to telling a 35 year old wookie what he should be playing. She's getting it now, as I occasionally throw in something utterly ridiculous, and if she doesn't pull me up on it, I will politely ask her why the hell she though I should be getting away with that. She's learning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1338411377' post='1674312'] With my current gig, I am teaching the songwriter to shout at me when I do stuff she doesn't like, as she is only 15, and is understandably a bit cautious when it comes to telling a 35 year old wookie what he should be playing. She's getting it now, as I occasionally throw in something utterly ridiculous, and if she doesn't pull me up on it, I will politely ask her why the hell she though I should be getting away with that. She's learning... [/quote] Good on you When I play my stuff I know how I want it to sound, when I play for someone else I expect them to tell me how they want it to sound. I may be able to help, to make suggestions but it's their music and I'm there to make it sound right for them. Steve PS I wonder if part of the problem for the OP was that the guitarist was too shy or too polite to say at the time "very nice but not what I'm after"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='El Bajo' timestamp='1338403168' post='1674109'] ....I just hope he doesn't get rid of me.... [/quote] Sorry to be blunt, but I think he's already told you that you're expendable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 We`re all expendable, and as long as the reasons given are clear, that`s all we can ask for. A really good mate of mine fired me from his band - though in all honesty he never asked me to join in the first place, but I digress - and he told me it was nothing to do with my bass playing. That was good enough for me, I didn`t care what other reasons were there, so long as my playing was up to scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1338410526' post='1674293'] It seems to me the OP may not have the wherewithall to record at home and fly in rerecorded parts by file transfer to be dropped in to the DAW. Otherwise he would not have needed to go all the way to Bradford to record, and book days off etc. I earn naff all from music. I have a nice well paid day job thank you, so I only need to play with bands I love, playing music I love. Music costs ME money, although I do have one pro gig but I love the gig anyway and it doesn't pay much as gigs are infrequent. [/quote] Well my comment in regards to money would be that I can almost say for certain you've earnt more than me from it from that point of view. I still feel that they could have at least given him a heads up to what they planned to do, recording over his parts. I am purely a musician for the sheer enjoyment of music too, and I feel that if someone were to remove my part/contribution then they are diminishing my enjoyment of the music. I wasn't trying to say that it was all about earning money etc, if that's what it implied so apologies on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 in fairness, id be a bit pissed if i went to the effort of writing basslines and then taking time and spending money to record them, only to have someone replace them. that said, the guitarist is the song writer, and at the end of the day he has the vision and really has the final say on what HIS songs should sound like. he should really have told you from the outset what he wanted from the songs in terms of bass lines, and should have been smart enough to at least have an idea how they would work with vocals over them. i guess what you need to do is decide if you just want to play bass for the guy, or if you want to be a contributer in the song writing process, if the latter then i suggest you look for another band. ive played in bands where ive been told exactly what to play, ive also been on the other side and told others what needs to be played. we have to learn to suck it up sometimes and play what is right for the band and not just think of our own ego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Sometimes... And I've had this before, songs change during production and a bassline, hook, or whatever part ceases to fit as well as it did when the song was first jammed and the line written. I've been pissed off with people leaving my lines in when they no longer really fit. Makes the song sound sh*t and makes me sound like the culprit. Sounds to me like he might have done you a favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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