playing fretless

[gub]

Wouldnt mind getting a fretless to have a go on but would have to be lined as i have never even tried playing one before but do love the sound of them . how easy are they to get into after being used to playing frets and would i get away with playing one all night at a gig for rock numbers where a fretless wouldnt normaly be used. i guess i would just have to have another bass ready to to do some songs that didnt suit it !

[icastle]

[quote name='gub' post='1223785' date='May 7 2011, 11:45 PM']Wouldnt mind getting a fretless to have a go on but would have to be lined as i have never even tried playing one before but do love the sound of them . how easy are they to get into after being used to playing frets and would i get away with playing one all night at a gig for rock numbers where a fretless wouldnt normaly be used. i guess i would just have to have another bass ready to to do some songs that didnt suit it ![/quote]

Some things suit fretless far better than others, I've seen players using them for rock and, despite what the player may think, they sound cr*p to my ears.
Slower ballady or atmospheric type stuff seems to work far better, but you need to not be afraid of wandering up into the area above the 7th fret if you want to make it sing instead of just grumble to itself in the background.

Don't worry too much about the lines or you'll limit the number of basses you can choose from - I found them useful for the first week but have pretty much ignored them ever since and just use the edge markers if I need a point of reference.
They confuse the audience as well - I have had several bass players coming up to me after gigs asking how I get a fretless sound.

Thinking back to my first fretless foray, the hardest part was getting enough precision to be able to play consistantly - even finger angle on the fretboard can make a note flat or sharp.

[Delberthot]

I'm just home from tonight's gig and the first in ages using a fretless.

The first thing I always notice is that when I am fingering the notes, my hand appears to be further up the neck than when playing fretted as I generally play right in the middle of the frets and I have to be careful not to mistake the 5th fret marker for the 7th.

You don't really need a lined as you would normally be looking down at the edge of the board where the dot markers are anyway so don't see the lines.

Setup is crucial if you want to play rock and still retain a punchy tone: really low action gives you the classic mwah but sounds quite lazy if you know what I mean so raising the action a touch will allow you to get a punchy sound while still retaining the fretless tone.

It is possible to use a fretless all night but it is hard work until you get used to it - try and practice while not looking at the fingerboard and build up your memory of what is where rather than staring at the dots all night. I've used a 12 string bass for an entire gig so a fretless is relatively normal compared to that

It is possible to slap on a fretless but it doesn't have the same sound as a fretted and it is possible to slap on a fretless with flatwounds on it cos i did a bit of that tonight

Strings are going to play a big part in getting the sound you want as well - I no longer get on with roundwounds but have found Roto flats still give me a bright, punchy sound with the added benefit of not creating snail tails on the fingerboard.

I'm still finding my feet with the fretless cos its been a wee while since I last had one but I am really enjoying it cos its just that bit different to playing fretted all the time. There's lots of cool stuff you can do that you can't do on a fretted bass

[hubrad]

As a long-term fretless-only type, if you want to play rock on a FL you need to look at an ebony board and possibly active pups.. I prefer ash body as well, but that's me!

[Delberthot]

[quote name='hubrad' post='1223815' date='May 8 2011, 12:44 AM']As a long-term fretless-only type, if you want to play rock on a FL you need to look at an ebony board and possibly active pups.. I prefer ash body as well, but that's me![/quote]


I would have to agree with the active pickups. I tried using a Squier VM Jazz fretless at a rock gig a couple of years ago and it stank big time. My one has EMGs and it makes a huge difference to the sound.

I think its an ash body as well but rosewood fingerboard. I'm using Roto flats as I mentioned previously as they're the brightest flats I've used and they won't chew up the fingerboard

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=77550&hl=fernandes+fretless"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...nandes+fretless[/url]

[kerley]

You can use them for anything (I have for a few months) but it must depend on which one and how it is setup I suppose. I have been using Trubass nylon strings and my fretless doesn't mwah even if I want it to and I have used it exactly as I would a fretted. Which is exactly why I have sold it and got a fretted as I think I was missing the point! As well as making it much harder for myself up past the 9th fret where hitting the notes is much harder.

Listen to these and see if they sound particularly fretless. Excuses for sound and ability range from early in morning, all first takes, recorded via video function of £100 stills camera (okay - I am just not that good at playing bass yet but I enjoy it!)


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1MBLDfVJoM"]Fretless 1[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h_4XR8b6Hg"]Fretless 2[/url]

[dmccombe7]

if you're used to fretted sound check out WAL basses which had an active function which gave a click to the notes. Sounded like a fretted. Expensive though to say the least.

My Overwater has a high end boost function which has similar sound. Again not cheap.

Agree with the lined comments though. I only went back to fretless last year after gap of circa 25yrs and don't really need the lines. It is hard work getting your technique spot on and I'm still learning how to improve on that front but i guess its a learning process no matter what bass you play.

I also agree they are best suited for certain styles and types of songs where feel and mood is more prevalent.

I would borrow one or spend some time with one in a shop first as its a big step to move to fretted.

I used a fretless precision in a rock covers band in early 80's doing everything from Magnum to Saga to Kansas and some Thin Lizzy. Sounded good to my ears and no-one i spoke to at the gigs was any the wiser.
I reckon nowadays though we have more officianados who are into bass playing and i reckon they would pick up on it.
I went from a Fender to a WAL custom cause I found it more challenging to play fretless and was into jazz rock at the time.

I loaned my WAL bass (lined fretless) to a mate at a charity multi band gig back in 80's. Well known singer / guitarist who was singing & playing bass on a Michael Jackson cover and when he finished his session he told me the bass kept going out of tune and he seemed to be tuning all the time. When i mentioned it was fretless he had no idea ?
This guy has recorded and played all over the world with a major 80's band and is a well respected guitarist in his own right. Just goes to show even the so called experts don't know it all.
PS : He didn't sound that much out of tune to be fair.

Good luck
Dave

Edited May 8, 2011 by dmccombe7

[Bilbo]

Don't worry about lines or about how 'hard' it is to play a fretless. Its not that hard and you can use it for anything you can use a fretted for. I have used mine for everything for 25 years without any issues or complaints from other musicians. Intonation takes a bit of work and attention but we are talking hours not years.

[pietruszka]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1223925' date='May 8 2011, 09:45 AM']Don't worry about lines or about how 'hard' it is to play a fretless. Its not that hard and you can use it for anything you can use a fretted for. I have used mine for everything for 25 years without any issues or complaints from other musicians. Intonation takes a bit of work and attention but we are talking hours not years.[/quote]

Yep, +1. Except the 25 years bit being only 27! What I found rather helpful was to play the fretted 'blind', this should help your muscle memory and make the transition easier and more importantly, enjoyable!

I bought my fretless from here, and never looked back, I love it. I use it in the club band and solely in my rock originals to. Take the plunge! You'll love it!



Dan

[hubrad]

[quote name='pietruszka' post='1223990' date='May 8 2011, 11:25 AM']Take the plunge! You'll love it!



Dan[/quote]
Excellent summing up, if I may say so.

[gub]

Cheers guys theres some reallt usefull comments in there and it really helps ,i have seen an old antoria a while back on here which had an unlined face but lines on the top and just coming over the front a tad which i thought was a cool idea ,so will keep a look out for something like that but with active pickups i think .

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1223925' date='May 8 2011, 09:45 AM']Don't worry about lines or about how 'hard' it is to play a fretless. Its not that hard and you can use it for anything you can use a fretted for. I have used mine for everything for 25 years without any issues or complaints from other musicians. Intonation takes a bit of work and attention but we are talking hours not years.[/quote]


I guess this says it all really. Bilbo's experience with a fretted for 25 yrs and he's highly regarded on BC.

Took me a little longer to get the intonation right to a point i was happy and again i don't know whether other people listening would have even noticed.

I would have to say the fretless is far more versatile than people think.

Give it a go.

Dave

[Doddy]

The problem with a lot of fretless players is they put too much vibrato onto the notes
and slide in and out of everything. If you play the notes cleanly,and more importantly,
in tune,it's highly unlikely that anyone will notice any difference.
Don't worry too much about whether or not you want a lined 'board.Either way you will
have to rely more on your ears.Even on a lined 'board,if you play right on the line,you will
be slightly out of tune.You have to compensate by playing either slightly in front or behind
depending on where you are on the neck. I use a lined fretless,not because it makes it easier
but because the bass I liked was lined (Ibanez Gary Willis).
I also don't use flatwounds on fretless-I think you lose a lot of the tone and 'mwah',so I always
use roundwounds.

[Musicman20]

I was going to raise the same topic as this. Im getting on with 5ers, although not ready to gig them.

I now also want a fretless, and was thinking a Stingray...

How difficult is it?

[dmccombe7]

I'm no expert and I'm sure there are far more experienced fretless players on BC than myself who could explain it more clearly but for what its worth :-

IMO if you want to sound the way most people imagine a fretless with that sweet, mellow vibrato ie like Pino or John Giblin then i think you need to work hard to develop your technique which will take time.
I've had my fretless for a year but its not my main bass so not used regularly. More of a hobby bass that i like to use to improve my accuracy and general technique. I love the possibilities a fretless can offer compared to a fretted where you can express yourself more readily.

As stated by Bilbo earlier its not hard to get used to the fretless and generally your fingering but to get that "fretless" sound takes a bit more work.

Hopefully Bilbo and Doddy can advise. Sounds like they have more knowledge and experience and I wouldn't mind benefiting from their thoughts too.

Cheers
Dave

[RhysP]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1224125' date='May 8 2011, 02:17 PM']The problem with a lot of fretless players is they put too much vibrato onto the notes
and slide in and out of everything.[/quote]
I was going to say this as well - [b]don't overdo the slides & vibrato!![/b]

Get your intonation sorted out first - many fretless players use big vibrato & lots of slides to try & disguise their dodgy intonation (me included!).

[Blademan_98]

I use a fretless most of the time.

I find it fun and usually gets people asking what it is

Mine is just a cheap second hand (£100) Rogue I picked up in PMT.

I use it for all the acoustic gigs but I also use it for my electric Rock/Blues project too.

Can be played clean, with chorus or full distortion

Go for it!

[Chris2112]

I'm planning on getting the payment in for a fretless ACG in the next couple of days, a custom built bass for me to mess around one. I used to love a bit of fretless playing but I got rid of my Alembic as I still didn't really love having 5 strings. I also like having lines, although having had a few fretless basses without lines over the years it's not a 'must' for me but I do find they are useful, especially when playing on the faster tunes.

My new fretless bass will have a piezo bridge and a single magnetic pickup in the bridge position for that awesome burpy sound.

[WalMan]

[quote name='hubrad' post='1223815' date='May 8 2011, 12:44 AM']As a long-term fretless-only type, if you want to play rock on a FL you need to look at an ebony board and possibly active pups.. I prefer ash body as well, but that's me![/quote]
My lined gretless L2500 sounds good on rock stuff. I tend to switch for a slower number then not bother to change 'til the end of the set to keep things flowing and have got away with most faster stuff.

The downside of a lined f/less is people often don't realise it's a f'less until you point it out to them

[Jerry_B]

Gub - do you intend to play the fretless with a plectrum or not? I ask as doing tends to add a few factors that may take some getting used to.

[gub]

[quote name='Jerry_B' post='1224525' date='May 8 2011, 09:01 PM']Gub - do you intend to play the fretless with a plectrum or not? I ask as doing tends to add a few factors that may take some getting used to.[/quote]

no mate i never really got the hang of a pick ,i am all fingers and a thumb on the odd occasion!

[Skol303]

Speaking as someone at the other end of the spectrum to most folk here... that is, a beginner!... I can happily say that I haven't had any real difficulties playing fretless.

I 'de-fretted' an old bass myself, so admittedly mine does still have fretlines on it, which certainly help me personally - but I could see myself getting used to a plain fretboard with a little practice.

Sound-wise I love it. For me, it's a step closer to an upright (the Holy Grail of the bass sound, in my opinion). That said, I'd probably use a fretted bass if I was playing rock, and I'd probably steer clear of flatwounds too. But for hip hop, drum 'n' bass, soul and anything broadly under the jazz umbrella, it's always the fretless for me. Even though it only cost me £30 and a few bits and bobs from B&Q! :-)

[ahpook]

i'd say give it a go and have fun ! sometimes i think taking it all too seriously at the start can be the worst approach !

(but i'd go for unlined btw)

[Clarky]

I vote for the unlined too. When playing standing you will only see the dots on the side of the neck and, IMHO, the lines can also encourage sloppy intonation (parallax means you think you're playing on the line when sometimes you aren't), plus unlined looks so cool!

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1224379' date='May 8 2011, 07:10 PM']I'm planning on getting the payment in for a fretless ACG...
...will have a piezo bridge and a single magnetic pickup in the bridge position for that awesome burpy sound.[/quote]
Yes, yes, yes, YES, YES and a thousand times YES. Fretless + piezo + filter preamp = hot fretless sex.