What makes for a great slapper!

[iconic]

Possibly, but I was thinking more about active v passive....do you really need a rear mounted active humbucker....does string height come into it etc?

I'm learning to slap and fiddling about with Get On the Floor (Louis Johnson) and find
1/ the Fender P bass too quiet on the D string when slapped (OK popped)

2/ the Yamaha 414 PJ is far better but still not great

3/ and the jazz VMJ is also too quiet

4/ and I find the strings too close for my right hand on the jazz...technique?

5/ should the D always be popped, if so I gonna struggle with this choone


But I was thinking that's possibly why active basses could be better for slap n pop...like StingRays I suppose?

You maybe able to tell I know bugger all about slap but love trying to play and find it very difficult to do clean.

[AttitudeCastle]

I find Active basses and me slapping don't mix, but hand me a Passive P bass or a PJ and i'll slap away (Although not amazingly... )

Also whats the string spacing of the Jazz? 20mm?

I wasn't any help at all but i thought i'd add something

Haha

AC,

[iconic]

It's the thought that counts, cheers

[Doddy]

It depends what you're after. Listen to players like Freddie Washington and Kai Eclhart-they sound great slapping on a Precision.
I feel comfortable thumbing a Jazz Bass with a lowish action.
You don't have to always pop the D string. In fact,I often just use my thumb on all the strings. It's worth practicing thumbing and plucking all of the strings. Playing it cleanly is just another matter of practicing.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='iconic' post='1054726' date='Dec 11 2010, 09:59 AM']....You maybe able to tell I know bugger all about slap but love trying to play and [b]find it very difficult to do clean[/b]. [/quote]
I too am a dirty slapper (but I've probably not put in more than 3 accumulated hours slap practice my entire life).

I agree that the 'ray is perfect for doing slap but some of the nicest slap tone I've heard has been on passive (presumably) Jazzes.

[Fat Rich]

Not a great slapper myself but at the last Status bass meet up everyone else had astonishing slap chops. Their basses all had light guage strings and low action so that might be a place to start with one of your basses. I use medium to heavy strings and as long as they are fairly fresh they sound great but probably don't allow me to play super fast, not that I really want to.

I get some stunning slap sounds out of my active Status basses, but also from my passive Fenders although running them through an outboard Sadowsky preamp really brings them to life. Oddly I've not got a good slap sound out of my Stingray yet but I've not had it long.

Maybe try a more scooped EQ on your amp? If you have a parametric EQ you could try giving the mids a small lift and experiment with the frequency centre to get the right throaty burpy sound.

But most of it is just down to timing and muting, make sure no strings or harmonics are ringing in the background and concentrate on note lengths too. If you don't play much slap it'll always start off a bit sloppy but you'll soon zero in and start getting a tight sound.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Fat Rich

[Doddy]

I don't like to use light gauge strings for thumping. I'll usually stick to .45-.105,maybe go to .40 but that's rare. I also don't scoop the mids like a lot of players do. I keep the same EQ as I do for fingerstyle and rely on my technique more.

[Schnozzalee]

Kubicki, best slap bass - check Vail Johnson

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Schnozzalee' post='1054799' date='Dec 11 2010, 11:02 AM']Kubicki, best slap bass - check Vail Johnson[/quote]

Just checked out this example... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k3kqYDm44M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k3kqYDm44M[/url]

Purely commenting on the tone of the bass I'd have to say that I actually preferred the fingerstyle tone of the Kubicki rather than the slap tone.

[LawrenceH]

Larry Graham used a jazz (though later a Moon), his tone was ace. I don't think you need an active - and light guage strings may give that Mark King clanging metallic slap sound but honestly, I've yet to meet anyone who wasn't a slap fiend who actually liked his tone!

Regarding 'Get on the floor'. I'd guess the closest approximation of his tone with your set-up would be the VMJ with the bridge on full, neck rolled off a fair bit. That gets my jazz 95% of the way there with that particular song, and you can always add a bass boost at the amp (I assume it's a 'ray on the original?). I do struggle to slap really cleanly on a jazz and I often wonder if a 'ray would be easier in this regard but then youtube proves it's just my technique that's letting me down! Check out 'Glide' by Pleasure, pretty sure that's a jazz.

[Bass_Guardian]

Its strange but i feel most basses can slap anyway eg my Jim Deacon P bass special has a nice slap tone through my 30 w practice amp.

Its really IMO what type of tone u want rather than what bass but of course active differs alot from passive. I feel again IMO that u have more control slapping a passive bass than an active tone wise. Also how new the strings are on the bass affects the slap tone.



ps Larry Graham's tone rules

[crez5150]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1054779' date='Dec 11 2010, 10:43 AM']I don't like to use light gauge strings for thumping. I'll usually stick to .45-.105,maybe go to .40 but that's rare. I also don't scoop the mids like a lot of players do. I keep the same EQ as I do for fingerstyle and rely on my technique more.[/quote]


I agree alot with this..... I really don't see the benefit of scooping the EQ for slap.... you lose too much of the 'whump' from the tone. I think this is a mistake a lot of people make, they scoop the f*** out of the eq section and then wonder why it gets lost in FOH mix. A lot of people slate Mark King for this but if you actually look at his EQ settings (Graphic) you see a lot of the mids are actually boosted and it's the very upper mids that get cut.

Also I would agree with what Doddy says about learning to slap across all of the strings. A lot of players only slap the E & A. Slapping the D,G is harder to get a decent sound out of but it's just practice.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='crez5150' post='1054934' date='Dec 11 2010, 01:24 PM']I really don't see the benefit of scooping the EQ for slap.... you lose too much of the 'whump' from the tone. I think this is a mistake a lot of people make, they scoop the f*** out of the eq section and then wonder why it gets lost in FOH mix[/quote]

Definitely. The funk is in the mids.

[paul_5]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1054940' date='Dec 11 2010, 01:33 PM']Definitely. The funk is in the mids.[/quote]

and of course - "tha one"

[mcnach]

[quote name='iconic' post='1054726' date='Dec 11 2010, 09:59 AM']

Possibly, but I was thinking more about active v passive....do you really need a rear mounted active humbucker....does string height come into it etc?

I'm learning to slap and fiddling about with Get On the Floor (Louis Johnson) and find
1/ the Fender P bass too quiet on the D string when slapped (OK popped)

2/ the Yamaha 414 PJ is far better but still not great

3/ and the jazz VMJ is also too quiet

4/ and I find the strings too close for my right hand on the jazz...technique?

5/ should the D always be popped, if so I gonna struggle with this choone


But I was thinking that's possibly why active basses could be better for slap n pop...like StingRays I suppose?

You maybe able to tell I know bugger all about slap but love trying to play and find it very difficult to do clean. [/quote]


I don't think there's a clear definite answer.

Passive or active? The Stingray sounds great either way, so it's not that factor alone. My passive jazz was pretty good too. I have heard P-basses being slapped that sounded great.
But define "great"
Some like that ultra trebly piercing piano-string sound... and we're then in active territory pretty much. But most slapped sounds are not at all like that.


Should the D always be popped? It depends on whether you want a pop sound or a slap sound, doesn't it? For most things I pop it, but there's quite a few times where I slap the D string too, if that's the sound I'm after... Sometimes you're playing a fast run and it just flows better to slap it, so I do it that way. There's no "rule".

Different basses do sound different, and different strings too. Experiment and you'll find what you like best. And then you will change your opinion a few times, but that's natural

Difficult to play clean?
Yes, it is
When starting out it is difficult. But you keep at it, and 3 months later you realise you play much better than now, and 6 months even better... etc... practice, and you'll get it.

Edit:
one thing I found that helped me a lot was to learn to relax my arm. My first attempts consisted on hitting the strings with a thumb that was rigidly attached to a hand rigidy attached to a forearm rigidly attached to an arm... My shoulder would get tired!!! And I would flap about like a bird... it was VERY tiring. And not very efficient. Playing anything fast was impossible. "Blackeyed blonde" or even "Tell me baby" by the RHCP seemed totally imposible. "Higher ground" I could get to if I was lucky, and I'd be needing a prosthetic arm at the end of the song. But I saw myself playing on a video and realised that I had to relax and move my arm much less.
I focused on economy of movement, and trying to get my thump from the wrist, consciously asking myself every 10 seconds whether I was getting rigid and relaxing the arm if I was. Before you realise, you're able to play better, faster and without getting tired. If you have a better control over your hand, then you aim better and playing a bass with a narrow string spacing is not as hard anymore (although I still prefer wide string spacing, because if I'm a little sloppy I can hide it better )

Edited December 11, 2010 by mcnach

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='paul_5' post='1054995' date='Dec 11 2010, 02:33 PM']and of course - "tha one" [/quote]

In the mids and on tha one, yeah

[chris_b]

Slap started on passive basses, cos that's all there was! But that style of slap has nothing in common with the "angry typewriter" sound that passes for slap these days.

Having stood 6 feet away from Victor Wooten earlier this year I can tell that there were all sorts of clunks, buzzes and extraneous noises coming off his bass when he was slapping. I guess that as long as the notes are louder than the noises you're OK!!

[cocco]

My Aria SB is my favourite slapper by a long way. Narrow string spacing and light strings at a low action is the key IMO

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='iconic' post='1054726' date='Dec 11 2010, 09:59 AM']rear mounted active humbucker

learning to slap

(Louis Johnson)

the Yamaha 414 PJ is still not great

the jazz VMJ is also too quiet

I was thinking [b]StingRays know all about slap love [/b] [/quote]


Fixed it for ya!

Edited December 11, 2010 by stingrayPete1977

[lowdown]

[quote name='cocco' post='1055169' date='Dec 11 2010, 05:34 PM']My Aria SB is my favourite slapper by a long way. Narrow string spacing and [b]light strings at a low action is the key IMO[/b][/quote]

My 70's Jazz Bass with a high action, strung 47-107, no scooping, sounds great [for me anyway]
I think a big part of it is down to your technique, and the amount of work you put into it.



Garry

[bubinga5]

A good technique.

.or my Modulus..the slap sound is biblical..

[iconic]

thanks for the replies guys, I think it is just down to practice, practice and some more practice.

....also something I may have picked up is that I may not be bouncing my thumb quick enough on the upper strings which could be muting the sound a tad?

[chilievans]

How about Cat on Eastenders

[JTUK]

If you haven't got much time in on slapping, then there could be a whole host of stuff that is missing.
You need the string to be able to bounce off the board you are hitting it against..so low action helps as does manageable string gauge. Most people scope something or another..it just depends what freq you choose..
All the sounds you'll hear have 'holes'..but you really do need to end up with a slap sound and a fingerstyle tone so you don't have to touch the EQ, 95% of the time.
You want to be able to thumb all strings and get a sound to start with but whether you stay with that technique later, depends who you listen to.

Older skool have a predominace of thumb...newer skool..but still 25 yrs old..uses MK's typewiter riffola stuff which is pretty much all about triplets and LH pats..other guys do almost everything in octaves..so is split between low end thumb and hi end pulls..and then you have Caron/Wooten's take which is ripped, IMV, for the most part, from Abe L's style.

But if you can't tell the difference between a LH pat and a hammer-on, all this is for later on.

Work on a decent bouce and sound..and maybe try some basic drum rudiments bewteen LH and RH thubg..OR do it with octaves..


Any decent drummer will tell you RLRRLRLL..so use that with thumb and LH slap..or Root - octave to start.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Schnozzalee' post='1054799' date='Dec 11 2010, 11:02 AM']Kubicki, best slap bass - check Vail Johnson[/quote]

I'd have to say the best slap bass on a Kubicki came from Stuart Hamm - his chops are certainly the most phenomenal and IMO he is the best slap player of all time!

The slap solo from the "Country Music (a night in hell)" section of this video is particularly explosive...



and at 03:43 here there is another nice slap section...



I also particularly like these two videos, not only does the bloke have one of the Ex Factors with the awesome wood tops but he is a great player and the videos show how effortless Kubickis are to play. You also get a feeling of that typical Kubicki slap tone, with it's compressed bite and brilliant percussive click. Nothign sounds better in a band or on it's own IMO!

Edited December 13, 2010 by Chris2112