Overly loud drummers

[ezbass]

[quote name='kingforaday' post='959183' date='Sep 17 2010, 10:16 AM']trouble with hot rods and brushes is most drummers seem very reluctant to even try them in my experience, i play drums as well and i really like using them for certain styles of music but trying to convince drummers of bands i've been in has proved very difficult indeed, they don't like change![/quote]
Despite my suggestion of the change of beating implement earlier I do get this negative reaction from my current drummer too. I think it's probably either taken as a slight or is down to a lack of confidence in their own abilities.

[TimR]

How would many bass players react to a drummer telling them they should be using pick not fingers or vice versa?

In the end I left my last band due to the drummers attitude. He could keep excellent time and was solid, wasn't too loud but he thought he should be louder. I tried to explain that if the crowd were dancing at the far side of the dance floor or pinned against the far wall, we were probably already too loud, but that fell on deaf ears.

He didn't know what a triplet was, couldn't play 16th notes for longer than two bars and had no idea what a shuffle was. If we started at the wrong speed there was no adjustment it would continue to the end of the song at the wrong speed. He had no feel whatsoever at whatever volume he played.

I can usually lock in with a drummer as soon as we start playing but I was having to do all the work to make the songs groove and there was never any lock.

All of that I could cope with if it wasn't for his attitude. He had been drumming for 20years so who was I to suggest he tried things differently?

Every one should be able to make a song work played at low volume or slowly. It's called the "Amateurs Disease" - play it louder and faster and it will sound better. Often it does, but that is because you can't play it properly in the first place and the imperfections are hidden in the resulting noise.

Before blaming the drummer for not sounding right at low volumes check that your other musicians know what they are really doing in the space between the drum hits

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='TimR' post='959216' date='Sep 17 2010, 10:49 AM']He didn't know what a triplet was, couldn't play 16th notes for longer than two bars and had no idea what a shuffle was. If we started at the wrong speed there was no adjustment it would continue to the end of the song at the wrong speed. He had no feel whatsoever at whatever volume he played.[/quote]

Yes, but APART from that, what was the problem ...

[Doddy]

[quote name='kingforaday' post='959183' date='Sep 17 2010, 10:16 AM']trouble with hot rods and brushes is most drummers seem very reluctant to even try them in my experience[/quote]

The trouble is that a lot of drummers see and use brushes as a quiet version of a stick which they are not-brush playing is an art in itself,which a lot of players don't realise.
As far as stick size,the loudest drummer that I've played with over the last few years uses little 7A's.

[algmusic]

As a Drummer and Bassist who works alot on both I see and hear this alot...

You have two choices really

stay and buy ear plugs, if you like the band (i use custom moulds, with 15's or 25 filters) or

leave the band

If you're close as musical friends then maybe there will be room for discussion, but before you make suggestions, thick about how you might feel if the drummer told you how to play or what strings to use or whether to use a pick, or what amp..

In most cases, I've realised, some people change as time goes on and others don't..

It annoys me a when I hear people criticise another musician on an instrument that they don't play.. if you change the sticks or kit you use and the way you hit the drums it's no different from changing from an 62 p-bass to a warwick or a markbass to a marshall or flats to rounds..

That said a great bassist can tame and mental drummer.. :-)

Edited September 17, 2010 by algmusic

[JTUK]

I really don't have any complaints with this guy.
Attitude is very professional, kit sounds great, has loads of levels to go to in a playing sense.
Good grooves..which surprised the hell out of me when I dropped him in on a pick-up gig and out came the
funkier standards.
Sounds awesome miked on a big stage as his strike is consistant.
If you put him in a Zep/Purple tribute band, he'd nail it many times over. Ultra tight and gets ALL the fills he goes for.
I have never ever heard him drop a beat. This guy is no bozzo by any definition that I know of.

He is a loud player and I can live with that. In confined places that can be a problem so we would rather cope with
that issue ( and drop those places as confined means a struggle to set-up and fit in all of us as well ) ...rather than a pretty non-isssue with the drummer.

I think the reason it was so apparent in the 1st instance was because he was more powerful than many others we'd played with on the circuit. We would come from all sorts of deps gigs and he is a rock player.

If you have read my posts about bonehead gtrs and 4x12's you'd know I don't tolerate blitzing a mix with stacks. No one has mentioned it as a problem from an audience POV but jazzers would say we are loud. Its all relative.

Edited September 17, 2010 by JTUK

[Low End Bee]

What? You'll have to speak up.....

ER20s I think they're called.

Dave's kit certainly pushes out the volume.

[algmusic]

Ahhh jazzers..

It's funny.. I used to do a fair bit of jazz. I hardy do any now and I think the who jazz volume thing can be a illusive. I've been to some jazz gigs that were much louder than rock ones..

I love both genres.. I think sometimes, the ears handle more, if they like the music :-)

[martinbass7750]

[quote name='endorka' post='958934' date='Sep 16 2010, 11:08 PM']I know this is the case with some drummers, but it doesn't have to be, it is just down to poor or limited technique on their part.

I know some drummers who can groove or swing like nobody's business, while playing in a restaurant at conversation level.

Unfortunately they are rare beasts, who are always busy. Funny that :-)

Jennifer[/quote]


+1 for that.

always wear ear protectors. I wear earplugs for rehearsal and in-ear monitoring for gigs. sorted!

[JTUK]

[quote name='martinbass7750' post='959434' date='Sep 17 2010, 01:47 PM']+1 for that.

always wear ear protectors. I wear earplugs for rehearsal and in-ear monitoring for gigs. sorted![/quote]


you may be... not so sure about the punters, tho..

[cheddatom]

I've been playing drums in a much quietter band recently. It's been very hard to try and adjust to playing quieter. At first I was playing with hot rods and brushes, and I really like the sound of them. However, when I listened back to the recording, the whole thing felt dead - there was no life in the drums. I swapped to some nice light 7As and now it's going really well.

I have to say though, I play much better when i'm playing loud - especially my kicking. I realise that's just down to practise (and a sh*t kick drum pedal).

Also, it depends on the drums and how you've tuned them. I had a guy with a really nice pearl snare come to record with me once. It should have been really loud (apparently) but this guy tunes it pretty slack. I have this yamaha snare and a "power dot" skin, and as soon as you've tightened it it's louder than anything - never needs micing up.

[steviedee]

I've been playing with same drummer on and off for about 20 years and he's very loud and a great player but you know I like it.

[ironside1966]

Just get the drummer to play quieter he will get used and it will make a more versatile and useful player.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='ezbass' post='959096' date='Sep 17 2010, 08:24 AM']Ask him to use Thai Sticks [url="http://www.jhs.co.uk/regaltip.html"]http://www.jhs.co.uk/regaltip.html[/url] (near the bottom of the page). These significantly reduce the volume without altering the sound of the drums or requiring a change in technique. Amongst others the great Manu Katche uses these.[/quote]

I popped into my local drum specialist to ask about these.

Guy behind the counter (owner of the shop, about 60, been everywhere & done everything) said "[i]They're just their own-brand ThunderSticks[/i]." He wasn't doing them down, just pointing out that there's nothing special about them.

He got out a set to show me, and to compare to the brand my drummer uses.

The only unusual feature is that the bundled sticks have a set of 3 O-rings holding the bundles tightly together at intervals. The drummer can move the O-rings to where he wants them to "tune" the sticks.

[ironside1966]

A band is a unit and should be able to balance them self’s if one person plays to loud and drowns out the rest of band it is worse than having a bad drummer for most of the audience and is doing the songs no favors at all. If the band have to turn up so loud to compete that it makes the audience uncomfortable then ditto. Not getting into the quiet drummer good loud drummer bad thing but a drummer who can’t play to the environment is bad.

[ahpook]

[quote name='ezbass' post='959096' date='Sep 17 2010, 08:24 AM']Ask him to use Thai Sticks...[/quote]

aaah, get him so stoned he can't play...

i liiike it

[parker_muse]

Our drummer is loud in practice. Loud in gigs. Loud when we're trying to speak or sort something out. Especially loud when you're trying to tune.

But he's damn good at it.

[JTUK]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='959620' date='Sep 17 2010, 04:21 PM']A band is a unit and should be able to balance them self’s if one person plays to loud and drowns out the rest of band it is worse than having a bad drummer for most of the audience and is doing the songs no favors at all. If the band have to turn up so loud to compete that it makes the audience uncomfortable then ditto. Not getting into the quiet drummer good loud drummer bad thing but a drummer who can’t play to the environment is bad.[/quote]


bad...?? do you mean a bad player..?

Do you mean he will pee off the punters or landlord/proprietor?

A bad mix is a bad mix

A too loud mix is a too loud mix..
We don't have bad mixes where all you can hear is one instrument, can't hear the vocals or anything remotely like that.
I don't think we have had a bad recording mix of the band at all..and all we do is throw a zoom dev up in the corner of the room.
Of all the rough zoom recordings we have done, they have all ( or tracks from them ) ended up on the band website as examples of our live sound.

[mep]

Our drummer commented recently that a lot of drummers start loued and then develop a technique so they can play quieter when needed. He admits to playing loud in his early days. Maybe some drummers haven't got past this stage yet?

[ezbass]

[quote name='ahpook' post='959621' date='Sep 17 2010, 04:22 PM']aaah, get him so stoned he can't play...

i liiike it

[/quote]
At last! I can't believe it took this long for someone to make that connection

[Dood]

[quote name='Mikeg' post='958840' date='Sep 16 2010, 09:32 PM']im in a small band with two guitarists myself a singer and a drummer, all i can hear is the drummer and my hearing going

Anyone else had this?[/quote]


Hand him some sheet music. Works for guitarists too. Silence is golden

[Dood]

[quote name='ahpook' post='959621' date='Sep 17 2010, 04:22 PM']aaah, get him so stoned he can't play...

i liiike it

[/quote]


A good friend of mine actually played better when he was baked. I think it made him calm down and lock to the click better. Infact, I watched him record several songs, start to finish just to a click, no band and they were 'pro level single takes'. What a git!

[algmusic]

[quote name='dood' post='959994' date='Sep 17 2010, 10:41 PM']A good friend of mine actually played better when he was baked. I think it made him calm down and lock to the click better. Infact, I watched him record several songs, start to finish just to a click, no band and they were 'pro level single takes'. What a git! [/quote]

A good drumming friend of mine is the same

[ahpook]

must be something about drummers - i know one too.

[nash]

I didn't know you could get drummers that were too loud.