Short Scale Basses

[BarnacleBob]

Apologies if this has been covered in another thread but, as it says on the tin, what are BC'ers experience of the 30 -31" scale.

I remember as t'lad hankering after a Fender Musicmaster in the mid 70's cos the only 'real' bass player i knew had one - though he never let me anywhere near it.

They don't seem to be any more abundant now, as then, though. The two that spring to mind are the Fender Bronco and at the other end of the (short)scale the Alembic SC. Also the Gibson EB series were short scale I think.

What difference do those precious 3 and 1/4 inches and more make (please keep the Kn*b jokes for the recipe thread)?

BB

[absolutpepper]

[quote name='BarnacleBob' post='861716' date='Jun 9 2010, 01:15 AM']Apologies if this has been covered in another thread but, as it says on the tin, what are BC'ers experience of the 30 -31" scale.

I remember as t'lad hankering after a Fender Musicmaster in the mid 70's cos the only 'real' bass player i knew had one - though he never let me anywhere near it.

They don't seem to be any more abundant now, as then, though. The two that spring to mind are the Fender Bronco and at the other end of the (short)scale the Alembic SC. Also the Gibson EB series were short scale I think.

What difference do those precious 3 and 1/4 inches and more make (please keep the Kn*b jokes for the recipe thread)?

BB[/quote]

Hey

The Ampeg Dan Armstrong Plexiglass bass was/is also 30" scale.

I have one and its a great bass to play. My experience with short scales is that you sacrifice a little variation in tone (the lower tension seems to impact the string vibration) but gain a lot in playability - the basses i've tried are passive so perhaps an active with an onboard EQ would be different. The neck on the Dan Armstrong is immense, 2 octaves over 30" and its lightening fast as a result. The pickup is really hot - kinda like a mudbucker from an EB0 and as a result it has this massive, warm, woolly tone. Very vintage but very cool.

I wouldn't recommend a short scale to someone who wants it as their main bass but short scales are way above their reputation as being oddities and curios. They are generally great (well the musicmasters, EB-0s, Ampegs, etc are anyways) and should stand on their own as a genuine alternative for a player who is looking for a short, comfortable, fast neck with loads of playability; they just might not offer the tonal variation of their bigger brethren.

[Spoombung]

I've owned 2 short scales now so I've got a good idea of the differences between short and long scale.

Short scale:

[b]Advantages[/b]: lower string tension, easier for smaller hands

[b]Disadvantages[/b]: Bassier sound with less 'twang' less 'snap' and definition, softer attack, occasional rattling.

32" is a compromise between the two scales (I'm not familiar with).

[BarnacleBob]

Cheers Guys.
Spoombung, you say an interesting thing in that you feel the bassier sound is a disadvantage which i would have said was a plus.
My thinking was that the short scale would make a more 'trebly' tone, just shows you how wrong you can be - bit worried about the occassional rattle though especially at my age.

BB

[BigRedX]

My first bass which I used all through the 80s was a short-scale Burns Sonic. Really good for two note chords and Joy Division/New Order-esque high register bass lines, not so good for anything below open "A" for note definition (at least until I discovered Newtone Strings who were able to make a decent short Scale E string).

Since then I've bought two more short scales and they're all completely different in feel and sound. You need to get out and try some, what you'll find is that there is massive variation between all the different models of short-scale bass - consider the Gibson EB0, Hofner Violin Bass, Fender Mustang, Danelectro Longhorn; tonally and for feel they're nothing like each other and really all they have in common is their scale length.

I couldn't really recommend a medium scale bass at all. I bought one as a backup bass for the Burns, and for me it meant having to find yet another type of uncommon string, and had none of the advantages of either the short or long scale basses.

[Happy Jack]

I have (and used to have) loads of shortscales ... vintage Hofners.

+1 to the playability and sheer fun factor. They also tend to be significantly lighter than 34" Fenders and whatnot.

Mine are usually strung with period-correct flatwounds, which emphasises their thuddy nature, but you can easily offset that by (1) playing with a pick, and (2) playing higher up the neck - which is what Macca used to do with his violin bass.

Apart from rock'n'pop, shortscales make excellent reggae basses.

[artisan]

i had a Gibson SG bass fairly recently & very nice it was too,excellent for blues & classic rock.
after a good setup it certainly didn't rattle
very comfortable to play but since i'm now in a funk band it was no good for that,so i had to move it on.

[derrenleepoole]

I'm making the move to short scale after 20 years on the bigger boys. I find them just so much more comfortable to play, particularly over longer sets. Sound wise, there really isn't that much difference in newer models IMO, as modern preamps and modern string design can more than compensate for lower string tension etc. I have a Tanglewood TEB12 semi acoustic 30" bass. Tonally is very good and versatile, the only weak element being the E string which lacks definition compared to the other strings. But a bit of thoughtful playing gets around this. This is probably due to the strings I'm using more than anything else. I'm looking at a SX jazz bass next, and putting in a good preamp with good high tension strings should still deliver useable tone that most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference between it's 34" brother.

[rasher80]

I'd really love to get hold of a Hofner, or one of its less-expensive offshoots, but being a lefty, I'm going to look Macca-tastic and i'm not sure if I'd be comfortable with it yet. It'd help lots too, seeing as i'm a bit on the short side and the Jazz i had looked ridiculous on me

[tayste_2000]

Trade you my Hofner for Betty, Bob

Edited June 9, 2010 by tayste_2000

[henry norton]

[quote name='derrenleepoole' post='862018' date='Jun 9 2010, 01:54 PM']I'm making the move to short scale after 20 years on the bigger boys. I find them just so much more comfortable to play, particularly over longer sets. Sound wise, there really isn't that much difference in newer models IMO, as modern preamps and modern string design can more than compensate for lower string tension etc. I have a Tanglewood TEB12 semi acoustic 30" bass. Tonally is very good and versatile, the only weak element being the E string which lacks definition compared to the other strings. But a bit of thoughtful playing gets around this. This is probably due to the strings I'm using more than anything else. I'm looking at a SX jazz bass next, and putting in a good preamp with good high tension strings should still deliver useable tone that most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference between it's 34" brother.[/quote]
+1 on that - the main issue with most short scales is they're budget instruments and come with cheap, crappy pickups and strings so come out of the box sounding muddy and dull. The more expensive basses tend to be somewhat perculiar in design and construction (Gibson EB with its' mudbucker or the Hofners with their hollow bodies and weak pickups). If you were to take a solid, short scale bass and string it with decent set of roundwounds, install good quality pickups and maybe some decent hardware and electronics it will become quite difficult to tell the difference.
Take a look at these... [url="http://www.birdsongguitars.com/"]Birdsong guitars[/url]

[tayste_2000]

My Hofner does not have weak pickups the output on them is similar to my Darkstars

Basically it's a different vibe you go for with the shortscale basses, more thuddy and vintage, I love it, not everyone will but the beauty of it is it can be achieved with a fairly cheap instrument just wack some decent flats on it

[evilLordJuju]

I've been playing a Hagstrom concord recently.

It's a short scale hollowbody. Great for moving around the neck, and sonically, a real contrast to the EB3s that I usually play.

I love short scale. Basses should rumble. Treble is for losers.

[Lfalex v1.1]

I like the look of those Birdsongs.
5 strings, too.

[henry norton]

[quote name='tayste_2000' post='862295' date='Jun 9 2010, 05:31 PM']My Hofner does not have weak pickups the output on them is similar to my Darkstars

Basically it's a different vibe you go for with the shortscale basses, more thuddy and vintage, I love it, not everyone will but the beauty of it is it can be achieved with a fairly cheap instrument just wack some decent flats on it[/quote]
I mean no disrespect to you Hofner The Hofner Violin basses I've played have all been pretty low output - maybe I'm too used to the DiMarzio in my P or the monster mudbucker in my EB. As for yours being as high output as Darkstars maybe Hofner inadvertently put a couple of SD Full Shreds into yours by mistake!

[BarnacleBob]

[quote name='tayste_2000' post='862250' date='Jun 9 2010, 04:07 PM']Trade you my Hofner for Betty, Bob [/quote]


PM'd

BB

[Spoombung]

[quote name='BarnacleBob' post='861763' date='Jun 9 2010, 08:41 AM']Cheers Guys.
Spoombung, you say an interesting thing in that you feel the bassier sound is a disadvantage which i would have said was a plus.
My thinking was that the short scale would make a more 'trebly' tone, just shows you how wrong you can be - bit worried about the occassional rattle though especially at my age.

BB[/quote]


Yes it works in the opposite way you might think; the shorter the scale, the less higher-pitched overtones in the note - especially tuned to the standard bass tuning. Increasing string gauge can replicate the long scale tension but the sound will still be bassy. It just means it will be thumpier, bumfier, woolier sound.

I wish I'd thought of this when I chose the electronics for my custom 31" Iceni - the J.East bass control is [i]boost only[/i] (15db!) and what I really needed was something that enabled a bass cut.

By and large, my flirtation with shorter scale basses is over and I've decided to return to playing standard scale. I just prefer the tighter sound.

[derrenleepoole]

Short scale SX Jazzes sound ace to me:

[Chris2202]

Im pretty new to bass and i play an Encore PK-20, which is 30" scale and i much prefer it to 34" scale basses, i find it easier to move around the board quicker

[Audiokostas]

I 've been into short scales for quite some time and I will like to add my experience if you can bear my use of English.
Quite few of them have been through my hands.
Having small (relatively) fingers and incidents of "frozen shoulder", left me with the one-way option of short scales.
I' ve been through some crappy ones and some brilliant ones.
I will be honest with you and say that the only that they leave me short with, is my vanity on stage.
Because when you play bass live with a band you want everybody to see the Man With Bass.
As we say in Greece (loosely translated) "Beauty is more important than pain".

If the instrument (short) is good (i.e. the absolutely fantastic Landing L2) there is no reason for a long scale. To my ears and fingers at least.
There still around (quite few of them actually) and of good quality in fact.
The Aria Pro Series II TAB-60, Ibanez AGB200, Epiphone Allen Woody, SX SJB-62 Short Scale, Alembic Series 1, Hagstrom HIIBN are all just wonderful basses. To hold, to look and to play with. Even the cheap Dean XM Evo I used to have (and giged with) was a quite respectable bass.
I have to say though that I was not that keen on the Fenders and the EB-0. But that's just me.

But, In my opinion I believe that medium scales (32) are the best option (still have two of them) that combine both worlds (long & short) advantages.
But that's another subject.......

Edited June 17, 2010 by Audiokostas

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I love my short scales. I have a few: 1971 musicmaster bass - the stock pickup was a mustang guitar pickup - like a shallow strat pickup even down to 6 poles. It sounded pretty weak - the E had that unfocussed tone you get with some cheap 5 strings on the B so I replaced it with a kent armstrong enclosed strat cool rails humbucker and it sounds a lot tighter yet looks totally stock. The tulip-shaped tuners do the job and look pretty, but are cheap tat.

My Fender Japan mustang is a much classier instrument. Lovely neck shape, perfect tone from the stock pickup - its the default one I take for most gigs.

[spinynorman]

My first short scale was a 1970s Japcrap EB-3 look-alike, possibly Ibanez (no, really), which I should never have replaced with an Epi Elitist EB-3, but I did. Didn't really get on with the Epi as well as I did the Japcrap one, partly due to the neck dive. Also had a Tanglewood (but I think Cort really) ABG, which was good, except I didn't like the deep body. Now have a DeArmond Starfire, which took some adjusting of pickup height to get it to sound right, but it is good for smaller, quieter gigs.

When I had the Epi I found it very difficult to adjust between long scale and short scale (kept making mistakes) but haven't had that problem with any of the others. Really want the JapCrap EB-3 back, but it is a specific one - the body is narrower and longer than an EB-3 copy should be - that and the small tuners probably account for the better balance.

[henry norton]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='870113' date='Jun 17 2010, 07:43 PM']My first short scale was a 1970s Japcrap EB-3 look-alike, possibly Ibanez (no, really), which I should never have replaced with an Epi Elitist EB-3, but I did. Didn't really get on with the Epi as well as I did the Japcrap one, partly due to the neck dive.

When I had the Epi I found it very difficult to adjust between long scale and short scale (kept making mistakes) but haven't had that problem with any of the others. Really want the JapCrap EB-3 back, but it is a specific one - the body is narrower and longer than an EB-3 copy should be - that and the small tuners probably account for the better balance.[/quote]
My short scale Epi's pretty good balance wise. It's an Indonesian one with a mahogany neck which in itself weighs about 250 grammes less than the later Chinese made maple versions - that's about a half a pound in old money which is quite allot to have hanging off one end. I couldn't believe the difference 'til I had the opportunity to actually compare one to the other, and that's with the heavy old steel tuners.
I play both short and long but it does take equal amounts of practice with both. I try to keep them as different as possible with the EB fretted with flats and my Precision fretless with rounds. The more differences there are the easier it seems to be to deal with the different stretches.

Just my half penny worth

[Audiokostas]

Quoting the Blues Brothers: "I got everything I need .............. almost".
Concerning short scales only.
Landing L2

Edited June 18, 2010 by Audiokostas

[Shambo]

Took delivery of a short scale SX precision the other day and my main gripe, (apart from the expected cheapo electrics), would have to be it's top heavyness. A headstock at least as big as a full scale + smaller body = massive neckdive. On the plus side, it weighs next to nothing compared to a heavy fender and you can move up and down the neck with speed and ease.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Shambo