Ignorance

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='847334' date='May 25 2010, 11:37 AM']I used to have a Steinberger L2 which I never used, so I sold it and bought a Jazz, which although I don't gig, I play at home. I have another soul/funk band but we aren't playing at the moment. If we do, I'll use the Jazz for that.[/quote]

Yeah, i wasn't criticizing you (we all do it after all), just seeing it from the other side of the fence.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='OldGit' post='847204' date='May 25 2010, 09:27 AM']You can be the one bass player on their patch that week that talks to them like they are a human and you are working together for a joint objective.

or... just accept that some sound people hate their jobs, and musicians, then play that gig and move on.[/quote]

I've always been nice to sound guys, and always approached them as though they are the expert. It's when I say "usually i'll use a DI and a mic on the guitar amp, is that OK?" and they reply "no mics for bass" or something equally rediculous. I'm pretty sure that it's not me pissing these people off.

I've seriously had sound engineers refuse to move a mic from a guitar cab for another band to my guitar amp, just because I play bass, and "no mics for bass". I've also had a guy refuse to take a DI post EQ and one guy asked me to give him a clean DI, despite the fact i'm gigging with 25 pedals and there was no mic on the amp!! ARRRGH

So yeh, i'm sure some bassists get all pissy when they only get a 20 second sound check or the like, and annoy the sound guy, but i'm pretty sure I treat them as nice as possible, and on the odd occasion you still get an utter tosser.

[JTUK]

Maybe some of the time it is fine but they don't say that either.

I could suggest that the gtr has bought the wrong amp..and he has been through some very nice ones..or that the keys don't have that great a Hammond sound but we just don't get there.
The singer did ask why I took 2 basses to some gigs and I had better reasons that just because they sound different and I want to incorporate that element into it. He takes 2 Acoustics tho.....

And none of them realised I had new cabs.......so maybe they'd notice if the sound was crap..but since they don't..I can assume I sound good..????

I don't need them to tell me that, but no, they don't understand the nuances of bass sound unless we record

[Starless]

Let's not start getting all chippy-on-the-shoulder because no-one else knows the ins-and-outs of our kit, or makes us feel under-appreciated. I haven't a clue what half the drummer's kit is called or why he bothers tweaking his tum-tums (or something) before a gig with the thing I normally use to bleed my central heating radiators.

Guitarists have a suitcase of little boxes on the floor in front of them (with cool blinking lights and stuff) and they stand on them every so often, I'm just not interested in whatever they may be for.

Sound checks? It's a bass, half of any 'nuances' get completely lost anyway (IMHE) - Can I hear it? Can they hear it out there? Good, where's the bar?....

It all comes together though and we sound pretty smart. That's all that matters.

Team game.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Starless

[OldGit]

I got my drummer friend to take me on a tour of his huge kit (this is not the guy in my regular band)

Double bass drum or two footed double beater on one, two snares, 2 hi hats - a normal one and a permanently closed on one the other side, 8 cymbals, some of which look exactly the same, 2 cowbells! 4 or 5 different types of things to hit it all with.
The nuances between one three part cymbal and another were too subtle to tell but he know what they were for.

Same thing, really, but with loads more toys

[Doddy]

[quote name='Starless' post='847450' date='May 25 2010, 01:14 PM']Let's not start getting all chippy-on-the-shoulder because no-one else knows the ins-and-outs of our kit, or makes us feel under-appreciated. I haven't a clue what half the drummer's kit is called or why he bothers tweaking his tum-tums (or something) before a gig with the thing I normally use to bleed my central heating radiators.

Guitarists have a suitcase of little boxes on the floor in front of them (with cool blinking lights and stuff) and they stand on them every so often, I'm just not interested in whatever they may be for.[/quote]

I don't know if you're trying to be amusing here or not-but this seems pretty ignorant to me. No wonder people look down on the
Bass Player if they come up with statements like this.
I know what every piece of gear that the guitar players use does and I have a total knowledge of drums-more than most drummers
I work with.

As far as soundchecks go,I generally ask for the sound coming out of my amp to be made louder in the PA. One guy I work with has printed
a 'bass tone eq' thing off the internet,and uses that to get a sound in the PA.I don't particularly like the sound he gets-not enough definition for
me-and it takes him ages to get a sound. Another guy gets a great sound,and it takes him literally seconds.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='OldGit' post='847489' date='May 25 2010, 01:44 PM']I got my drummer friend to take me on a tour of his huge kit (this is not the guy in my regular band)[/quote]

I might take my drummer around his kit one day. let him know the big flat round shiny thing isnt designed to be used as a blanket over the whole mix.

[OldGit]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='847517' date='May 25 2010, 02:13 PM']I might take my drummer around his kit one day. let him know the big flat round shiny thing isnt designed to be used as a blanket over the whole mix.[/quote]

Good luck

[Pete Academy]

My original point was that the 'bass is bass' attitude is sometimes annoying, like I turn up for the gig with a 5-string because it's a gimmick or something.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='847570' date='May 25 2010, 03:12 PM']My original point was that the 'bass is bass' attitude is sometimes annoying, like I turn up for the gig with a 5-string because it's a gimmick or something.[/quote]

Yeh "you don't need ALL those pedals" "I bet you never use those extra strings", that type of thing? I've had that a few times but only really from arrogant youngsters, never soundmen (apart from the idiot who asked for a clean DI).

[Jerry_B]

Maybe it's more to do with the sorts of bands people are in? It seems sometimes that in certain types of bands (i.e., ones playing certain genres of music), certain instruments take precedence. I've only ever been in punk/alternative bands and there was never any snootiness at all about the bass - if anything, it was bought more to the fore. But I've heard horror stories from bass players in metal bands (and going by the above posts, some other genres) and it makes me wonder if it's not due to some imagined pecking order within certain genres...

[dave_bass5]

While i know what your getting at, a few of the bass players i know also think that.

Not every bass player is really in to their gear like most of us (i would even go so far as to say im not in to it that much either).
Of course everyone wants a good tone but for a lot of people (dare i say fender owners without getting to much abuse). Turn up, plug in a P and off you go.

Edited May 25, 2010 by dave_bass5

[gafbass02]

[quote name='Starless' post='847450' date='May 25 2010, 01:14 PM']Sound checks? It's a bass, half of any 'nuances' get completely lost anyway (IMHE) - Can I hear it? Can they hear it out there? Good, where's the bar?....[/quote]

The problem really is that often they really dont have to get lost, i understand completely how most of the minutae many of us fuss over, myself included can get totally lost live, but, as you say, 'can they hear it, well sadly often the answer is no, not really. Especially as our frequency range is one the human ear is not particularly effective at hearing much less in a busy mid heavy (i.e. guitars) mix. Thus we need to either be far louder than most muso's would expect or prefer to even be noticed by Joe public, or have a particularly biting tone to slice through.
But so often this is all lost and reduced to 'whump whump whump'

However as we all know, its unlikely to ever change so all we can do is our level best to manage it as best we can, learn the tips n tricks of the trade, and grit our teeth and be thankful for our health when it all goes t*ts up. Or simply be thankful for the fact that we get to do stuff that so many people can only dream of doing.

(oh and ahem, Fender owner here....with a zillion pedals lol!) .........well until i got my zoom b9.1 anyway!

Edited May 25, 2010 by gafbass02

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='gafbass02' post='847585' date='May 25 2010, 03:29 PM'](oh and ahem, Fender owner here....with a zillion pedals lol!) .........well until i got my zoom b9.1 anyway![/quote]

yeah, i guess i shouldn't have mentioned any particular brand. I dont think i put my point across properly.

I, personally, find a P or Jazz is a pretty simple bass and i find i mess much less with my EQ and tone knobs during gigs when i use one. Just set and forget (more or less). Plus i would say a lot of sound guys would know how to get a good tone from these basses.
Then you have the players who have enough electronics on their bass to put the Space Shuttle to shame, 31 band graphics, bi amped rig etc who obviously want their tone to come through out front.
I guess this could baffle a sound guy as to why you need all that, especially when a lot of the time this tone would be mixed in to the out front mix and buried in low end mud.

[JTUK]

Well, I was serious about knowing about the Gtr amp... I can hear the difference and I am know he can.
A decent Hammond module might set you back over a £1000 so I can understand why this might not be a priority for keys at this time.

Acoustic gtr needs an overhaul/service and the drums are tuned a bit too rocknroll, IMV....but overall the band sound is good - from the rough recordings we have made. I think we need to get a couple of really good tracks to populate our website, but am happy enough with just the zoom parked in the corner as an after-thought for now.

As I said..non of it is offensive-sounding, but in a perfect world it could be better.

As for the OP..I have the best of both worlds..I have 5 string Jazzes
We might laugh an joke about things sound-wise but it is ok, IMO. If it really wasn't we would address it..

[gafbass02]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='847605' date='May 25 2010, 03:44 PM']yeah, i guess i shouldn't have mentioned any particular brand. I dont think i put my point across properly.

I, personally, find a P or Jazz is a pretty simple bass and i find i mess much less with my EQ and tone knobs during gigs when i use one. Just set and forget (more or less). Plus i would say a lot of sound guys would know how to get a good tone from these basses.
Then you have the players who have enough electronics on their bass to put the Space Shuttle to shame, 31 band graphics, bi amped rig etc who obviously want their tone to come through out front.
I guess this could baffle a sound guy as to why you need all that, especially when a lot of the time this tone would be mixed in to the out front mix and buried in low end mud.[/quote]


Heh heh, just teasing bro, i knew what you meant, i still sometimes miss playing active basses, but i know what yo umean about just set n forget with passives, much easier, less temptation to start fiddling with my knob onstage.

[51m0n]

I think its a lot simpler than you are making out.

There are IME two types of soundguy. Good and Dreadful.

Given the right amount of time a Good sound engineer will do their best to use the PA to amplify a band such that they sound as good as possible in FOH, and all have decent monitor mixes. At least as good as the venue will allow...

Given any amount of time a Dreadful sound engineer wont manage that for the team on stage. They may get a great kick sound, or guitar sound or xylophone sound, the vocal may be super, but someone on the team will not. As a result of the pecking order of these things and the true difficulty of making bass sound really good in a live space we often sound like mud. The fear that the guitarist is going to have a million different levels means that the Dreadful sound guy, rather than asking the important questions and pushing on, gets a mini set from each guitarist demoing there new pedals.

Only way round this is either have your own (great) sound guy OR do sound yourselves.

[tauzero]

We start playing the intro to "Sweet Child O' Mine". Guitarist says "You're really out. Are you out of tune?" Me: "No, it's a fretless. It's in tune." Him: "It sounded really out of tune." Me: "No, the bass is in tune, my fingers aren't.".

I thought he'd have known this, his dad being a bassist... Oh, and yes, it's a pig to play on a fretless, as is the middle 8 to "All Right Now". Practice, practice, practice... and maybe get a 6-string so I can play it five unfrets further down the neck

[Cat Burrito]

A few random thoughts from me;

I always try and get on with the soundman. They know the venue and they know the PA. If you know your gear let them take care of what they do.

The lead instruments are always more important than supporting instruments in the eyes of your average gig going punter. I've done a bunch of gigs on mandolin and I never expect anything more than a line check. Guitars take longer when the band use pedals. Guitarists who are effects free tend to spend much less time soundchecking. Think about it.

Regarding the OP, the singer might just like your Jazz Pete... I have had loads of band mates past and present state preferences over certain gear, and vice versa.

I must confess having said all of that, I play bass in a band where the role is very much "back room boy" - all of this may be different if you are soloing and very much upfront in the mix. That said, I do have a couple of walking lines but the band sit back and they always cut through fine.

[ahpook]

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='847659' date='May 25 2010, 04:35 PM']I always try and get on with the soundman. They know the venue and they know the PA. If you know your gear let them take care of what they do.[/quote]

plus the one

best way to get a sh*t sound ? rub the person doing the sound up the wrong way.

best to get an OK sound by playing ball than be unheard cos you hacked the wrong person off.

ymmv as per

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='ahpook' post='847669' date='May 25 2010, 04:41 PM']plus the one

best way to get a sh*t sound ? rub the person doing the sound up the wrong way.

best to get an OK sound by playing ball than be unheard cos you hacked the wrong person off.

ymmv as per[/quote]

Yep, I remember an absolute bunch of A-holes we once did the sound for, at a big 7 band night, so we had a lot of change-overs, they felt they were more important than everyone else and after a bit too much posturing and talking to us (the sound crew) like they'd just wiped us off their shoes, we unplugged all their instrument mikes, and put the vocalists voice through a pitch shifter so she was half a step out.
That'll learn them...

[Mog]

Could be an excuse to get a 5 string Jazz Pete! Onto the subject of soundmen, its simple IMO. The bass soundcheck is done when I say it is. 10 seconds or 10 minutes, whatever it takes. If its not right during full band check we go again. I try to have my amp settings ready before I start though which is easy if you've played the venue before. No matter how good the engineer is, he's still not a magician. It's up to the bass player to ensure he sounds like a bass player.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Mog' post='847726' date='May 25 2010, 05:35 PM']The bass soundcheck is done when I say it is. 10 seconds or 10 minutes, whatever it takes.[/quote]

Out comes the pitch shifter

[tauzero]

[quote name='OldGit' post='847747' date='May 25 2010, 06:01 PM']Out comes the pitch shifter [/quote]
And the half-second delay in the foldback...

[gjones]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='847211' date='May 25 2010, 09:34 AM']Quite strangely, on the Strictly Tour, I've been eq-ing as I always do, making sure I can hear every frequency of the bass & sending the DI signal "pre eq" from the amp. The sound where we are on the stage is great, but all I hear is thud and boom out front. This weekend however, I sent the signal "post eq" and the engineer commented, "Wow, your bass sounds amazing this week." Hmmm... [/quote]

Hmmmmmm....a very interesting comment. I've been in the same situation where the sound of my bass out front is woolly rubbish but on stage is excellent. I've always wondered why all the sound guys/girls I've ever dealt with want a pre DI signal, into a DI box, when I've spent a lot of time getting a sound I like with the EQ on my amp. Guitarists get their sound and then a sound guy puts a mic in front of it to amplify THAT sound.

Time to make a stand! Bassists unite! If they want a direct signal they can take it from the amp post EQ! Get that poxy wee DI box out of my sight!