Lorne Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 It is such a shame that in today's society,the laws seem very firmly on the wrong doer's side,yet whoa betide you if you do 5 MPH over the speed limit To the original Poster,I hope you can get this sorted out,and LEGALLY,don't drop yourself in the brown stuff because of a liar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I think I'd be tempted to turn up at a gig with a couple of big lads and ask him nicely for the money. If that fails, take some gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='619980' date='Oct 7 2009, 09:21 PM']If that fails, take some gear.[/quote] I bagsy the tartan pants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kets Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Gust0o' post='619848' date='Oct 7 2009, 06:39 PM']My legal understanding is limited, but are the deception offences not seperate to the theft offences for just this purpose? Whilst this isn't theft, this individual has obtained property by deception - with the appropriate causality (i.e. send the bass, I'm making the payment now) - so how is this not a legal matter? I think the police have it all wrong, in this instance. In any case, it doesn't sound as if they've had sufficient information to rule out a deception offence. I would pursue the legal route [i]instantly[/i], both with a means to exploring the possibility of this being a genuine deception offence; and of securing the return of the property alongside appropriate redress. Appropriate redress should include an element of recompense for stress and inconvenience. I helped a friend pursue a claim, which proved most satisfying. The repercussions go well beyond the simple recovery of the matter at hand - you're well into the realms of possibility for CCJs, and all other kinds of hang-ups. That would make it suitably hard to secure future employment; accomodation; credit. Sounds like silly-billy could do with reminding of that. If times are hard now, they can suddenly get a lot harder.[/quote] I have to disagree with this. Whilst it isn't theft, I don't think it's fraud either (We don't call it deception in Scotland). In my view, the buyer hasn't intended to decieve or defraud the seller (This is an essential element of fraud). The buyer has agreed to buy the bass, thereby entering into a contract, however the seller has sent the bass before receiving the money which he acknowledges he shouldn't have done. Had the buyer not sent the money, then the bass wouldn't have been sent either. This makes it a civil matter, which obviously isn't a Police matter. I do however feel sorry for him. On this type of forum, we do treat people differently as fellow basschatters, pushing aside the fact these types of deal are very much "Buyer beware". We all like to trust people and 99% of folk are honest. Other than that, the advice you've been given sounds sensible. Good luck with it. Edited October 7, 2009 by kets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burno70 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Protium' post='619989' date='Oct 7 2009, 09:27 PM']I bagsy the tartan pants[/quote] Only if I'm 2nd on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ase_one23 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 there's something i'm a bit unclear about all this which maybe someone could clear up, tho i think it was touched on in an earlier post: there have been a few suggestions that the seller shouldnt have sent the bass until the money was recieved. why? let's assume for a minute that both parties start off equal and innocent, each with goods of equal value (cash and a bass); somebody has to take the first step. one party has to make a decision to trust the other person and give them their goods without knowing they will recieve the other's. are there different laws governing buyer and seller? also, if this happened face to face would we consider the matter differently? scenario: buyer meets seller, each holding their goods. both agree to exchange. buyer hands seller money. seller takes money and runs off. surely this is theft, or at least fraud? i can't see how the above scenario is fundamentally different than from lemmy's dilemna, unless there is a difference legally between the buyer and the seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) I was simply pointing out options, Kets, so far as I knew them - I'm not pretending to mind-read the buyer, as to his intentions or otherwise On the question of intent, might this not then fall under the definition of [i]recklessness[/i]? I know this much from my time in the insurance business. Ok, so you didn't want to cause harm; but you knew you would; so hey. Guess than it would be question of whether he genuinely intended to pay, or not? That perhaps rings a little more true - but, again, without the power of mind-reading (and a good nights sleep, I'm going fuzzy at the edges) i'm happy to leave it I hope the OP does take up our suggestions of some civil action, if this chap doesn't get in touch. I'd love to think it was simply an accident of circumstances, but the attempted re-sell doesn't bode well. The amount might not be huge, but the principle is realling niggling - just who the f*** does this kind of thing? Too late for my brain to work on any level, so time for me to duck! Edited October 7, 2009 by Gust0o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Aw Steve that really bites. I hope this wins him a ban from the forum... there wouldn't be much point him coming back anyway. I totally hate that this dil is a Scot (presumably) I wish I could do something about this for you. Who knows I may find myself on the same bill as him someday. :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I've got a sock with some pool balls inside if anyone's interested? :ph34r: all joking aside, I doubt that someone could be as stupid as to leave their details all over the interweb and then do something like this. I personally think that this should be dealt with legally- - perhaps the guy's not got the money to pay for it or post it and he's embarrassed and trying to sell the bass off to pay you it back. who knows. Hopefully this will get sorted out quickly and you'll either get your bass or the cash back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kets Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Gust0o' post='620054' date='Oct 7 2009, 10:36 PM']I was simply pointing out options, Kets, so far as I knew them - I'm not pretending to mind-read the buyer, as to his intentions or otherwise On the question of intent, might this not then fall under the definition of [i]recklessness[/i]? I know this much from my time in the insurance business. Ok, so you didn't want to cause harm; but you knew you would; so hey. Guess than it would be question of whether he genuinely intended to pay, or not? That perhaps rings a little more true - but, again, without the power of mind-reading (and a good nights sleep, I'm going fuzzy at the edges) i'm happy to leave it [/quote] No worries mate, I'm not having a go! I don't have the full facts either, but I've offered my opinion based on the facts, and on my knowledge of law. Lets not forget that lawyers get paid huge amounts of money to argue over such technicalities in court, so it's down to interpretation at the end of the day. I agree with the folk who reckon he's fallen short on the money, and is too embarrased to say so. If you were going to join a chat form and talk at length with people with the intention of defrauding someone, you'd do for more than £150. And you probably wouldn't give out lots of personal details etc. See what happens. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving_camel Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hmm..was it this address? [Edit - Address details removed. Please don't post them here - there could well be other people living there who aren't involved. Thanks! Wateroftyne] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHUFC BASS Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Beedster' post='619813' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:44 PM']Not in West Ham perhaps, but everywhere else it Natural law and criminal law down't always agree Chris[/quote] the bloke is in wrong when you cut to the chase, no two ways about it. What can he do? Call the old bill? Maybe, but you can argue that technically its yours because you've paid for it. Take a copy of the bank statement to prove you've paid for it If he come across all shirty then you (if thats the way you operate) call the police and tell them the story. Be sure to bring aforementioned bank statement. If him and his mates gang up on you and threaten you then you can unleash hell on him with the mates you've brought down in the transit van who have been drinking Jagermeister like their lives depended on it. In the words of Erroll Brown - "Everyone's a winner baby" (apart from the thieving f***er who nicked your guitar). Oh, and Mrwaynepunkdude, yes I would be proud of him getting a kicking, so you can put that down in your little black note book too - file it under "I don't give a f***. Edited October 8, 2009 by WHUFC BASS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 [quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='620188' date='Oct 8 2009, 01:14 AM']the bloke is in wrong when you cut to the chase, no two ways about it. What can he do? Call the old bill? Maybe, but you can argue that technically its yours because you've paid for it. Take a copy of the bank statement to prove you've paid for it[/quote] It's not theft if you believe you're entitled to it (as in it already belongs to you), in West Ham and everywhere else in England & Wales. As the guy's in Scotland, I can't comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalmoore Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Seems to be quite a few of us "weegies" on the forum. Maybe the idea of turning up to a few gigs of his and talking would be of benefit. I know i wouldnt be happy being in a band that a member has stolen some of their gear, but we all know some people aren't as nice as we would like to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'm sure the guy has read this thread by now and knows the wrath of BassChat is about to come down up on him. This place is safe to trade simply *because* we don't let 'em get away with it. I don't mean sending the boys round but I do mean that we will do what is needed to sort this out. I feel quite strongly about it! Let's hope he saves himself a lot of bother and fixes it himself. Soon - today!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Hi folks Please don't post any address details here. There could well be other people living at there who aren't involved. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 [quote name='Doddy' post='619775' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:17 PM']In all fairness,why didn't you get the money before sending the bass? As it is you've just given him a nice little gift.[/quote] Don't you still owe me fifty quid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 I've just had a pm from Jamie and he says he is putting the money in my account today, plus a little extra for the BC coffers Thanks to all you guys, some stirling advice here from some top blokes. It is greatly appreciated and hopefully this will have a happy ending, rather than being a long drawn out saga. I think he has realised his mistake and that this is the best solution for all concerned. I think he is genuinely sorry for messing me about due to his own personal circumstances Cheers all, you been ace Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 SHAZAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggy Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 [quote name='lemmywinks' post='620254' date='Oct 8 2009, 09:02 AM']I've just had a pm from Jamie and he says he is putting the money in my account today, plus a little extra for the BC coffers[/quote] Result, glad to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Result, good news, now let's perhaps drop it i.e. to err is human, to strive for divine retribution is about you not them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass-ic Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Good to see the BCers have brought about the CORRECT result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM10 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) Basschat does it again! Anonymity - A thing of the past Edited October 8, 2009 by GM10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Woop! Well, I'm delighted to hear that. Of course, now Jamie's a redeemed character, I think people would be happy enough to offer advice if he is having difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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