GreeneKing Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Doddy' post='619775' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:17 PM']In all fairness,why didn't you get the money before sending the bass? As it is you've just given him a nice little gift.[/quote] There's something called faith in mankind that works 99% of the time in my experience. When someone has such faith in me it's a gift I cherish, it makes life a better place. I have sent stuff before the cheque has cleared or the transfer has gone through and I've not been bitten. Let's not knock anyone for having faith in their fellow 'forumites'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerdragon Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Doddy' post='619775' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:17 PM']In all fairness,why didn't you get the money before sending the bass? As it is you've just given him a nice little gift.[/quote] I think it's a Basschat trust thing. Clarky sent me a bass before my cheque had cleared.i suppose it all depends on the individual i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='lemmywinks' post='619518' date='Oct 7 2009, 01:03 PM']PS no "should have known better" / "chalk it up as experience" replies please, i know this is partly down to my naiveity and don't need patronising. I'd like some constructive advice[/quote] [quote name='Doddy' post='619775' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:17 PM']In all fairness,why didn't you get the money before sending the bass? As it is you've just given him a nice little gift.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixshooter Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Is it worth talking to the police again, if this guy is advertising the bass for sale surely he is now trying to sell stolen goods which is a criminal matter rather than a civil matter? You have proof that a contract was made. Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 "jamiejames last seen today at 4:53 PM" What a scumbag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 On the forum at 4.53pm. Did he get in contact at all? I'm guessing not... Go the legal route, I reckon. No mucking about. A letter demanding payment, and then (assuming that doesn't get a result) straight to the Sheriff. IMO it doesn't matter if it's £173 or £17.30, it's the principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='sixshooter' post='619796' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:32 PM']Is it worth talking to the police again, if this guy is advertising the bass for sale surely he is now trying to sell stolen goods which is a criminal matter rather than a civil matter? You have proof that a contract was made. Just a thought[/quote] Trouble is the goods aren't stolen in the eyes of the police. They can't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 Yes i think he's been lurking for a while tbh. Did the Gumtree listing get pulled when it was flagged up on here? If so then i guess we know why! I'd rather have the bass or money than a witch hunt, although they are fun I have pm'd him just now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ase_one23 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 i live pretty near there. i'd be more than happy to pop round and explain the situation to him. and i don't mean this in a threatening way at all, just maybe a face-to-face will shame him into relenting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='619686' date='Oct 7 2009, 04:05 PM']Technically not theft.[/quote] Not in West Ham perhaps, but everywhere else it Natural law and criminal law down't always agree Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='ase_one23' post='619808' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:42 PM']i live pretty near there. i'd be more than happy to pop round and explain the situation to him. and i don't mean this in a threatening way at all, just maybe a face-to-face will shame him into relenting?[/quote] This guy has a beard, and judging by his avatar, could pass for Chuck Norris. Good plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='619756' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:03 PM']You need to give the guy an 'out' if you can.[/quote] Good advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Maybe he needs to change his username from JamieJames to JesseJames? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='ase_one23' post='619808' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:42 PM']i live pretty near there. i'd be more than happy to pop round and explain the situation to him. and i don't mean this in a threatening way at all, just maybe a face-to-face will shame him into relenting?[/quote] I may call you up on that! Cheers dude He's already had plenty of "outs". I've been very understanding with every excuse he's given. It's only when i reached a seemingly dead end that i brought it into the public forum, i've been gathering information on him for some time and have everything written down and the important internet pages saved just in case this happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmesa Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Good luck with this.. well out of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ase_one23 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='MythSte' post='619815' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:46 PM']This guy has a beard, and judging by his avatar, could pass for Chuck Norris. Good plan.[/quote] hehe, my girlfriend will be amused. joking aside, that's maybe an issue, i really dont mean to be threatening at all, quite the opposite in fact. still, if you want me to contact him just get in touch, i'm ashamed that someone from glasgow's giving us a worse name than we already have!!!! Edited October 7, 2009 by ase_one23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Good luck with sorting this out. Every basschat member ive dealth with has been 100% genuine and decent. But, obviously someone has shamed our good name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 My legal understanding is limited, but are the deception offences not seperate to the theft offences for just this purpose? Whilst this isn't theft, this individual has obtained property by deception - with the appropriate causality (i.e. send the bass, I'm making the payment now) - so how is this not a legal matter? I think the police have it all wrong, in this instance. In any case, it doesn't sound as if they've had sufficient information to rule out a deception offence. I would pursue the legal route [i]instantly[/i], both with a means to exploring the possibility of this being a genuine deception offence; and of securing the return of the property alongside appropriate redress. Appropriate redress should include an element of recompense for stress and inconvenience. I helped a friend pursue a claim, which proved most satisfying. The repercussions go well beyond the simple recovery of the matter at hand - you're well into the realms of possibility for CCJs, and all other kinds of hang-ups. That would make it suitably hard to secure future employment; accomodation; credit. Sounds like silly-billy could do with reminding of that. If times are hard now, they can suddenly get a lot harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Some bed-time reading on deception offences: [url="http://www.claimerfraud.co.uk/deception.ppt"]http://www.claimerfraud.co.uk/deception.ppt[/url] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception_(criminal)#Obtaining_property_by_a_deception"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception_(cr..._by_a_deception[/url] [url="http://www.experiencefestival.com/deception_offences_-_obtaining_property_by_a_deception"]http://www.experiencefestival.com/deceptio..._by_a_deception[/url] Just a quick start - sorry, I haven't had the time to look much further. I'm going for a booze with one of our corporate lawyers tomorrow, they might know something more. Not their field, mind. Come to think of it, I was bantering with EdwardMarlowe on that Emin thread in 'Off Topic' - he's a legal academic. Must be worth a punt (if he's not already commented, sorry Ed!) surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Doddy' post='619775' date='Oct 7 2009, 05:17 PM']In all fairness,why didn't you get the money before sending the bass? As it is you've just given him a nice little gift.[/quote] I don't think it's as simple as this. As we know from another case someone can pay the money and then the bass not be sent. So in practice it doesn't really matter whether money goes first or bass goes first because one way or another there has to be some trust from one or other party. So the OP didn't 'give a nice little gift' any more than someone who pays first and then doesn't get the bass (or whatever it is) 'gives a nice little gift'. None of these kind of sales operates without trust on one side and honesty on the other. To the OP: I hope you get your money . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I've sent a few things to basschatters before receiving the money. Only once did I think I might not receive the money, and it turned out it was because I'd got my account number wrong when the buyer was paying me by bank transfer. I think I'll make it a policy to get money up-front in future, unless it's someone I've done a deal with before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Gust0o' post='619848' date='Oct 7 2009, 06:39 PM']My legal understanding is limited, but are the deception offences not seperate to the theft offences for just this purpose? Whilst this isn't theft, this individual has obtained property by deception - with the appropriate causality (i.e. send the bass, I'm making the payment now) - so how is this not a legal matter? I think the police have it all wrong, in this instance. In any case, it doesn't sound as if they've had sufficient information to rule out a deception offence. I would pursue the legal route [i]instantly[/i], both with a means to exploring the possibility of this being a genuine deception offence; and of securing the return of the property alongside appropriate redress. Appropriate redress should include an element of recompense for stress and inconvenience. I helped a friend pursue a claim, which proved most satisfying. The repercussions go well beyond the simple recovery of the matter at hand - you're well into the realms of possibility for CCJs, and all other kinds of hang-ups. That would make it suitably hard to secure future employment; accomodation; credit. Sounds like silly-billy could do with reminding of that. If times are hard now, they can suddenly get a lot harder.[/quote] The bass was sent to him as part of a deal. He didn't steal it, he didn't deceive. ALL he did was not pay. Also how long has it been. He will claim that he always intended to pay, of course. It's definitely a simple civil matter. The small claims court process is supposed to be simple. Of course if (when!) he doesn't show and still doesn't pay then you are into the realms of Sheriff Officers (bailiffs to you southerners). I would confidently expect that this is the way it will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ase_one23 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 i notice that he's been on the forum today at 4.52. really poor show, the least he could do would be to pm lemmy if he's embarrassed and deal with it all in private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebass Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) If he's put the bass on Gumtree & then pulled it, I would contact Gumtree straight away & let them know what's going on. At the very least, they may give you proper confirmation that the advert was placed, which could prove useful if you take things further through the small claims court... I think this is the link you need: - [url="http://www.gumtree.com/cgi-bin/help.pl?i=77"]http://www.gumtree.com/cgi-bin/help.pl?i=77[/url] B. Edited October 7, 2009 by bentdice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) @Thepurplebob - oops, yeah - I see that you mention deception. I still think he might have a case; if not to do more than prod the 'buyer' with. If this chap convinced the OP that he was intending to pay, as a basis for securing the property, it would be reasonable to assume he deceived the OP - from what little I know. I agree that the civil matter would be the easiest to pursue. But the OP has options, I think Edited October 7, 2009 by Gust0o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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