Why are venue house bass amps always such utter sh#te?

[Paddy Morris]

I was pressured into playing through yet another utterly rubbish venue bass amp last night.  It was one of those gigs where loads of bands had been on, and all the other bass players had (probably reluctantly) all used the same knackered, low end Ashdown rig.  No offense to Ashdown users, they make some great kit, but this thing was an old, underpowered, thin thing.  It seemed to have a compressor button that didn't actually switch the compressor off, and seemed to pull off the trick of being simultaneously too loud but also inaudible.

 

The FoH guy had pre-rigged it with his DI box, and it was a small stage.  I felt like it would have made me look like a real dick to insist on using my own amp, which I could have got on and off the stage in less thsn 30 seconds.  But can you imagine a situation where a guitarist would allow himself to be coerced into using some knackered old amp that happend to be on stage?  There's no way on earth.

 

Also, if for logistical reasons of getting bands on and off quickly, you want everyone to use the same bass amp, well why not buy something so lovely and so flexible that no one could possibly mind using it.  But house bass amps universally seem to be sourced from skips outside the local Cash Converters.

Edited yesterday at 14:33 by Paddy Morris

[Lozz196]

I agree, for some reason us bassists - and drummers to a certain extent - seem to end up with the “can’t you just use that and make life easy” situations.
 

In times like these a Sansamp or equivalent is our friend, might not be a great onstage sound through whatever pony rig we end up with but at least out front get a decent one.

[Dan Dare]

If venues provided high quality stuff, it would either be trashed or nicked. Sad but true.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

It's simple, whoever bought the rig wasn't a bass player. 😒

[la bam]

Think of it a different way.... 

 

The sound guy has had several bands worth of playing beforehand to get the bass and drum kit mixed really well out front. So you should have had a great sound. If you used you're rig he'd be starting from scratch again. 

 

I do agree though, always underpowered and inaudible for some reason.... 

[Beedster]

44 minutes ago, la bam said:

Think of it a different way.... 

 

The sound guy has had several bands worth of playing beforehand to get the bass and drum kit mixed really well out front. So you should have had a great sound. If you used you're rig he'd be starting from scratch again. 

 

This ^

[Skybone]

2 hours ago, la bam said:

Think of it a different way.... 

 

The sound guy has had several bands worth of playing beforehand to get the bass and drum kit mixed really well out front. So you should have had a great sound. If you used you're rig he'd be starting from scratch again. 

 

I do agree though, always underpowered and inaudible for some reason.... 

 

Because the sound out front is more than likely from the DI anyway, the amp is just there to give the band some bass on stage.

[Paddy Morris]

Well yes, but if it sounds shite to the players on stage, then it makes them play worse.

[Wolverinebass]

It's because bass isn't valued. I now refuse to play a venue if I'm not able to use something that isn't a piece of crap. I've almost come to blows with a few sound engineers for them trying to screw with me. If anyone says "pre-eq DI only" I immediately harden my accent to "full on Taggart" and generally something said in that voice does tend to get a bit more co-operation.

 

Most live engineers are underpaid and as a result, don't give a toss. The ones who won't do what you ask when it's totally reasonable or do the exact opposite are the ones who I have massive problems with.

[Lozz196]

For me it is completely about not valuing the bass, as per the above.
 

In my last band The Spacewasters I generally used whatever was there, and because my sound in the band was quite generic it was always ok. But in my previous band Knock Off to not use my own sound would have ruined the overall sound of the band. To have people insisting that’s the way it has to be, well no, not when I’m playing it isn’t.

 

I get it when it’s quick changeovers etc, but to me have less bands on, with better soundchecks & changeovers, and give the audiences what the bands want them to hear.
 

In the past I’ve had sound people tell me they’ll get me a good sound and I’ve told them to not bother as I already have one. 
 

Edit - I should add to this that in my experience on many multi band bills sound engineers seem to dislike either very bassy sounds or very distorted/driven sounds, as my usual sound is neither maybe that’s why I’ve never really had too much trouble with them using my sound.

Edited 23 hours ago by Lozz196

[mybass]

Same situation for me at a west London festival outdoors …. (Ashdown) amp and speaker provided, first song the amp stopped working, this against the sound engineer saying it was working fine….thankful I had taken my Markbass amp along.

[Twigman]

IME that's not the case.

The last few gigs I've done (all fly aways) I have had Ampeg SVT or B5R heads with Ampeg 4x10 or 8x10 cabs provided.

I used to take my tecampPuma900 with me, just in case, but I've stopped taking that now as you can't really go wrong with a SVT.

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Twigman

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

And that's why the riders for major touring acts specify Ampeg SVT. 

[Chienmortbb]

Are we saying that many sound mixists are convinced they are the main attraction. 

[BigRedX]

Because as others have said, if anything good was supplied it would get abused, broken and/or nicked.

 

IMO if you are in a band that regularly plays these sorts of multi-band gigs using house or shared kit, being able to play with enthusiasm no matter how terrible it sounds on stage is a skill as important as being able to play in time and in tune with the rest of your band. Being able to make the best of every situation is what will get your band more and better bookings and able to move up the bill (assuming that all other aspects of your performance are up to scratch). I'm now at the point that so long as I can hear I am in tune and in time with the rest of the band I'm happy knowing that the songs are great, and if it's not brilliant on stage I can play through it. Being a bunch of divas moaning about not being able to get "your sound" is unlikely to get you another gig at the venue. Trust that it will sound decent out front and play your heart out on stage.

Edited 7 hours ago by BigRedX

[Huge Hands]

I was a sound "mixist" in the late 90s/early 2000s and I can say that there are some useless sound people and some prima-donna d**khead band members out there too. 

 

My rule was pre-amp DI wherever possible, but if it was obvious the "sound" was all being done in the amp, I would take it post. A bit of discussion with the band always helped, unless they felt they were too important to speak with you.   

I can remember the bass player who insisted on using his own home-made preamp thing which appeared to output DC and melted the voice coils in the event's shared backline 8x10, or the guitarists/drummers who insisted on playing all the time when soundchecking. However, I have also been playing gigs where I have had to show the sound person how to operate their own desk, or get rid of some really bad resonance on stage, things like that.

 

As for backline - I was never sure if this was an urban myth or not, but I remember a guitarist once telling me of another guitarist pal who once turned up at a venue with his amp that kept cutting out, only to find the venue had the same one so he swapped them after the gig when they weren't looking and left his in place of the venue's good one! 

[Lozz196]

I wouldn`t say it was diva-ish to want your own sound if it`s a specific aspect of the band, giving JJ of The Stranglers a James Jamerson sound for example is not going to do much for the known recognisable sound of the band, nor for the fans who may really love JJBs tone and feel shortchanged for not getting it. It`s mainly for this reason that I`ve moved away from having a specific identifiable tone gotten from a specific pedal to that of a more generic tone achievable from pretty much most bass amps, I can easily get what I need plus it requires less carrying and setting up as well. I also then can essentially not bother the sound person too much (if at all) and let them get on with the most important bits, which to me are the vocals.

[Twigman]

10 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

the most important bits

The monitor mix

[Lozz196]

Good call!

[Paddy Morris]

3 hours ago, Twigman said:

IME that's not the case.

The last few gigs I've done (all fly aways) I have had Ampeg SVT or B5R heads with Ampeg 4x10 or 8x10 cabs provided.

I used to take my tecampPuma900 with me, just in case, but I've stopped taking that now as you can't really go wrong with a SVT.

 

 

Well that would be brilliant,  yes.

[iainbass]

20 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

It's because bass isn't valued

100%, Ive been playing for 45 years. Bottom line nobody cares about bass or the bassist unless the tunes are literally a stand alone bass line, (Riders on the storm for eg or, 'A Forest' etc ) But if the singers mic goes south?... Its pistols at dawn and a court appearence for some unsuspecting sound dude....and yes Im exaggerating simply to make the point.

Been to several theatre shows/gigs recently and the bass was just an indestinct mush, tells the story.

[Sean]

We aren't going to change the situation so we have to navigate through it. 

 

Learn how to use one of these (or something similar) and stick it in your gigbag. Stick a jack into the effects return of the PoS house rig, tell the FoH demigod that the box provides a fundamental part of the band's sound and off you go. Or, if he can't see/hear you, get one your bandmates to tell him. 

 

The last time I did this was about a month ago, HX Stomp (rather than DP) as feed to FoH through a TRS-XLR male. I didn't even use the house rig, the foldback was good enough. 

[Alec]

15 minutes ago, Sean said:

Learn how to use one of these (or something similar) and stick it in your gigbag. Stick a jack into the effects return of the PoS house rig, tell the FoH demigod that the box provides a fundamental part of the band's sound and off you go. Or, if he can't see/hear you, get one your bandmates to tell him. 

 

The last time I did this was about a month ago, HX Stomp (rather than DP) as feed to FoH through a TRS-XLR male. I didn't even use the house rig, the foldback was good enough. 

This, completely.

 

I gave up being arsey about bass rigs years ago.  Bring your own board, of whatever configuration, and your tone is there instantly - but make sure it is actually doing what you want, and doesn't have any stupid level jumps.  Then, the amp is nothing more than foldback and, while obviously better if it's good, you know you're sending the right signal to FOH.

 

Also, most FOH engineers will thank you.  They'll get your sound with minimum effort which, when you're not carrying your own FOH engineer, is the name of the game.

[itu]

Everything is different in Switzerland: I got a Mesa 400+ and a quality 4x10". One of the best rigs I've ever played. And chocolate, and cheese, and...