Cultural appropriation and covers

[tauzero]

5 minutes ago, super al said:

I always felt conflicted playing 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday. Great tune to play but a reggae song written and played by four British white men adopting sort of Jamaican accents for parts of the song.

 

It was only after learning it and playing it in rehearsal that I thought " I don't like this", but It was fun bassline to play and I think we played it live a couple of times. Even though I'm not in that band and not playing that song anymore I still think it was wrong to play it.

 

I guess that would come under cultural appropriation by association maybe? 

 

I didn't want to do it when it was suggested by one band as it just strikes me as racist.

[DF Shortscale]

21 hours ago, peteb said:

 

it's also the most middle class thing ever!

 

If the OP feels that he has to apologise before playing a song that you might not expect them to, then perhaps they could jokingly announce the song as 'some might think it strange that five white guys from the south east of England could play a song about the struggles of people in a land far away that we know very little about... but we're gonna do it anyway! It's a great song and I hope that we can do it justice'... 

 

That’s probably the nicest way to handle it, I agree. Although one big issue that sticks out is that the song will potentially be played to an international audience who are at least in part going to be from those lands far away. Doesn’t sit right with me at all..

[Stub Mandrel]

9 hours ago, super al said:

I always felt conflicted playing 10cc's Dreadlock Holiday. Great tune to play but a reggae song written and played by four British white men adopting sort of Jamaican accents for parts of the song.

 

It was only after learning it and playing it in rehearsal that I thought " I don't like this", but It was fun bassline to play and I think we played it live a couple of times. Even though I'm not in that band and not playing that song anymore I still think it was wrong to play it.

 

I guess that would come under cultural appropriation by association maybe? 

 

I would say no... unless you feel West Indians shouldn't play punk or heavy metal. But the lyrics do some dodgy stereotyping.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/jan/23/10ccs-graham-gouldman-every-west-indian-person-ive-spoken-to-loves-dreadlock-holiday-but-i-wouldnt-write-certain-lines-now

[Dan Dare]

What we call "culture" - any culture - is a snapshot in time. It didn't start out the way it is now and it will continue to evolve and develop in the future. All art and music borrows/steals from and builds on what went before. That borrowing/building process crosses all boundaries - national, geographical, racial and so on. Once a style of music or art is out in the world, nobody can claim to "own" it (I appreciate there is such a thing as copyright, but that's to do with the melody, structure, etc of a piece, not its origins). So as long as you play a piece of music sincerely (you don't take the p out of it, obvs) and to the best of your ability, I don't see an issue.

[MacDaddy]

Macbeth, opera by Verdi. Because  nothing says “Scottish tragedy” like storming a castle to the sound of bel canto 😖

It might not be cultural appropriation but it's annoying!

[itu]

If you play baroque music, should you use A = 415 Hz, not tempered scales, original instruments, but not forget those extramarital affairs, different conflicts with contemporaries, controversial political views etc.? 

 

Can you play music, or are we just discussing about a performance that includes numerous details that seem to be more important than the music itself? 

 

I hate Springsteen singing, although his songs are fine. To me Dylan sounds dreadful, and many of his songs are total #rap. I like some of Wolfgang's music, although he was next to impossible as a person (I am more than happy that social media wasn't invented earlier). Do I have to tell a story (an excuse) before I play any music from Marvin Gaye, Michael Jackson, or Charlie Mingus? Or should I just let the listeners to choose between enjoying their music, or thinking about their actions? 

[DF Shortscale]

2 hours ago, itu said:

If you play baroque music, should you use A = 415 Hz, not tempered scales, original instruments, but not forget those extramarital affairs, different conflicts with contemporaries, controversial political views etc.? 

 

Can you play music, or are we just discussing about a performance that includes numerous details that seem to be more important than the music itself? 

 

I hate Springsteen singing, although his songs are fine. To me Dylan sounds dreadful, and many of his songs are total #rap. I like some of Wolfgang's music, although he was next to impossible as a person (I am more than happy that social media wasn't invented earlier). Do I have to tell a story (an excuse) before I play any music from Marvin Gaye, Michael Jackson, or Charlie Mingus? Or should I just let the listeners to choose between enjoying their music, or thinking about their actions? 

 

Can you really separate the music from its meaning and purpose though? That's kind of what I'm asking. If that's ok in music, is it ok everywhere else? Should you wear a swastika t-shirt because you enjoy the shapes and colours, and ignore the meaning? 

 

I don't think this is an easy question to answer btw, music is different to visual media and meaning and purpose are multi-layered and change over time, as others have pointed out, but it's interesting that there is no clear consensus. Some people suggest that the meaning doesn't matter, others say it does matter but as long as it's approached with care it's ok, and a few think it really matters and it can't be ignored. Lots of grey areas.

[Beedster]

7 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I still think it was wrong to play it

 

Re Dreadlock Holiday I suspect that 10cc would agree.

 

There's a post on here somewhere from about 10-15 years back when one of the members was playing in an Americana band that, as many did, used a Confederate flag as a stage prop. A member of the audience took offence and I think there was some discussion about the legitimacy of that response. For me the bottom line is that I would never want a member of the (relatively small) audience I play to feeling in any way uncomfortable at one of our gigs. Our guitarist suggested a track a while back and we were all a little surprised that our drummer said no, and did so categorically. It's quite well known song and the lyrics in question were (I assume) intended by the writer as deeply ironic. But the drummer was firm and argued that if he felt uncomfortable with the ambiguity about the irony, so might others. It was quite a helpful process because it allowed us to get to a point at which we agreed that given the sheer number of bloody decent songs out there, we should never feel any pressure to play a song that might make us or any of our audience feel uncomfortable. 

 

Does this mean that I feel that music shouldn't create discomfort? Not at all. My view is that all art should have that power. But I think there's a big difference between us lot playing a song that creates discomfort for either us or the audience, and the original performers doing the same. I suspect the difference is the the artist/entertainer distinction, the original performer was the former, while we are in real terms the latter.  

[Baloney Balderdash]

1 hour ago, DF Shortscale said:

 

Can you really separate the music from its meaning and purpose though? That's kind of what I'm asking. If that's ok in music, is it ok everywhere else? Should you wear a swastika t-shirt because you enjoy the shapes and colours, and ignore the meaning? 

 

I don't think this is an easy question to answer btw, music is different to visual media and meaning and purpose are multi-layered and change over time, as others have pointed out, but it's interesting that there is no clear consensus. Some people suggest that the meaning doesn't matter, others say it does matter but as long as it's approached with care it's ok, and a few think it really matters and it can't be ignored. Lots of grey areas.

I don't think it is fair to compare a Fela Kuti to a swastica t-shirt.

 

Also if you can't relate to the song's lyrics, don't play it.

 

This goes as far as I am concerned for everything.

 

You are not going to do a song justice if you can't relate to it.

 

And if all it is to you is a nice tune, maybe you are right that it would be disrespectful to play it.

 

I would hope though that most people can empathize with other people's suffering no matter what color their skin happens to be and no matter where they happen to live.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Baloney Balderdash

[itu]

This is complicated. 

 

I want to point out that if we look back at the history, we should be aware that today's social media is faster and far more aggressive to judge people compared to historical composers and musicians. If we dig any deeper, there are many, many very controversial opinions said out loud. Such that today many would nail those persons right away. 

 

We are wiser than ever before - so was the people in Germany in the 30's. Still I read news on a daily basis which tell me about wars, famine, dictators... Why it is impossible to solve problems instead of cause more of them? 

 

If Roger Waters supports Russia instead of Ukraine, Pink Floyd still has a few good songs. Prokofiev, Wagner... let's not go to this. As was seen from @Beedster's flag example, there are lots of loud people who do not understand satire at all, although satire can be done like Kenny Everett did: with the best possible taste.