Would someone's extreme political views prevent you being in a band with them, or working with them?

[HeadlessBassist]

Sadly, we're seeing more and more of these 'divisions' in the world today.

 

A lifelong friend of mine really surprised me the other day. He'd come along to one of my local trio gigs last Friday and really enjoyed when the Drummer's daughter got up to sing a few impromptu numbers with us.

 

So said Drummer's daughter was due to perform her second go at her solo act in another close-by local town on Sunday. I invited my friend, because I really wanted to support `Kate in her performance endeavors. This time, my lifelong friend (a very educated man who travels the world consulting in lean manufacturing) says,

 

"Bit too BNP for me."

 

"Huh"?

 

"British National Party. They were always headquartered there."

 

"We're just going to see Kate perform. Not to engage in political activism, LOL!"

 

"What do you mean? I don't like racism."

 

"No, just that you object on the grounds that a few people in the area may be racist. Racism is everywhere."

 

"I don't want to bump into any." 

 

"So you're not going to go back to America on Wednesday for work on the grounds that Trump is a lunatic, then..?" 

 

🤔

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cetera]

4 minutes ago, Misdee said:

The point is that certain issues have a profile in certain people's imagination that is disproportionate to their actual incidence.

 

So, because you personally haven't experienced it in a band it doesn't exist or matter. Thanks, I'll be sure to check in with you in the future before posting....

[Misdee]

10 minutes ago, cetera said:

 

So, because you personally haven't experienced it in a band it doesn't exist or matter. Thanks, I'll be sure to check in with you in the future before posting....

You can post whatever you like. Others can respond.

 

Have a lot of people out there had a problem with band mates joining the throng outside asylum hotels with the aim of intimidating the residents? Has anyone, and what if they did?

 

But at least now we know we have a prescribed position on  this matter.

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Misdee

[cetera]

4 minutes ago, Misdee said:

You can post whatever you like. Others can respond.

 

Have a lot of people out there had a problem with band mates joining the throng outside asylum hotels with the aim of intimidating the residents? Has anyone, and what if they did?

 

But at least now we know we have a prescribed position on  this matter.

 

Point missed, as usual...

 

The only person talking about bandmates shouting at hotels is you. This discussion is much wider and more nuanced than that, but again your use of sarcasm betrays you....

[tegs07]

Wait does nobody else shout at hotels? Next you will tell me licking traffic lights is not normal.

[ProjeKtWEREWOLF]

Seeing a band, or buying music.....no. I am a fan of many punk, black and death metal bands with wildly different political views to me.

 

Playing *long term* with people on the opposite end of the spectrum is a definite no no. I've tried it. I was asked to play for a pretty extreme far left punk band (a friend pushed me into it!) and I found them really irritating as people, always on about ; I'm pretty middle of the road and don't like to talk politics. 

 

   I think differences are good, but extreme differences make things unpleasant. Someone has to keep their opinions to themselves.  I don't think it can work other than depping/short term financial gain. 

 

We are allowed to hold opinions other people disagree with (even if they are distasteful), and criminal actions should be prosecuted. 

 We also don't have to be in a band with anyone we don't want to be. It's not worth the misery. 

Edited 3 hours ago by ProjeKtWEREWOLF

[Stofferson]

Yeah, nah, wouldn't want to associate anyone with any vile views.

Bad enough at work, even the nice old lady who runs the canteen has started sharing the "usual" shut the borders etc memes.

Certainly don't want that crap in my personal / social life.

 

I do see members of bands / bands called out on such things too, so I've seen it happen, a drummer from some band was pictured at a far right rally, which was picked up on and shared about.

Needless to say, I don't think he'll get much gig work now

 

 

[SumOne]

I worked in a team of two doing manual work - which meant a lot of time in a Transit van, at cafes, or just chatting while working. The guy who was my boss turned out to be racist, but given the situation I didn't directly confront him right from the start - I didn't agree with him or encourage him but gradually questioned his thinking, over time he admitted that it was how he was bought up, is the news he consumes, and for him it basically came from a place of fear of 'different' and angry about his lot in life - it wasn't actually due to anything that had specifically happened to him by different races. More time passed, more discussions, long-shot was that over the course of a year he pretty much completely changed his views and went from voting BNP to being a strong Corbyn supporter. I dunno, in some ways it seemed he swung from one extreme to the other rather than just chilling out! 

 

I've known another racist, a relative. She seems genuinely scared of 'small boats' and all those sort of stories, add to that from Covid for about 4 years she didn't leave the house and barely does now - not for any specific medical reason, just that she is scared of the world. There's no reasoning with her, it's difficult not to feel sorry for her though.

 

And I know a guy that is almost the definition of a homophobe, he jokes but is literally scared 'I'm not going in the toilet while he's in there' sort of stuff. I don't confront him that forcefully other than poking fun at his irrational fear 'he'd never fancy you' sort of stuff.

 

I now mostly feel pity for people having those sort of views - they seem to live quite irrationally fearful and angry lives, so I don't know about potential band mates - I'm not sure someone being fearful/ill-informed/stupid is reason to not play music with them. And most of the time these attitudes are only a very small part of a personality.

Edited 3 hours ago by SumOne

[ped]

I must admit, when it comes to music, I care not a jot for anything beyond the music itself. I don't really listen to the lyrics or care what a song is about, and have no interest in the band member's affiliations or predilections beyond their stage and studio gear. 

[tegs07]

3 minutes ago, SumOne said:

And I know a guy that is almost the definition of a homophobe, he jokes but is literally scarred 'I'm not going in the toilet while he's in there' sort of stuff. I don't confront him that forcefully other than poking fun at his irrational fear 'he'd never fancy you' sort of stuff

I knew someone very similar. All was well once his very religious parents died. Now he lives in another country and spends a lot of time on Grindr

Edited 3 hours ago by tegs07

[HeadlessBassist]

9 hours ago, Misdee said:

Extremism and "bigotry" is then defined as anyone who doesn't concur with certain groups of people in society's idea of themselves, or anything that challenges and questions those ideas. 

 

This. Exactly. These days, if you have an opinion opposite to 'the herd' [no matter how considered and well thought out], you're automatically labelled a racist, bigot, or some kind of fringe lunatic.

 

Back to the point at hand though, our beliefs, no matter how extreme or otherwise, have nothing to do with the music we play together. We're there to entertain either ourselves, each other or an audience. Politics should never come into it. If people can't separate their beliefs from what's truly important, they need to get over themselves and get a life. It's good to have principles, but please, keep them to yourselves. The music is more important.

Edited 3 hours ago by HeadlessBassist

[Leonard Smalls]

We had a keyboard player once who was always on about "workshy dolies", and was very conservative in his views... So long as he hadn't been on the Stella he tended not to shout very much about looney lefties or whatever, but never ever appeared racist.

However, he also bought the Daily Star every day, and after he'd left the band started going on about how we'd all be under Sharia Law soon. And this ranting rose as he came more under the Spell of Stella - soon he was unable to work anymore and could only afford White Lightning. At about this time he also informed me that he'd been playing with Lily Allen, but as he wasn't very handsome they kept him behind a curtain (though I knew for a fact that he hadn't left Swansea, and wasn't very good as a keyboard player either!). And he was also thrown out of the covers band he was in for unreliability, drunken-ness and being too aggressive. However, he'd always been quite unhappy and blamed others for his self-inflicted misfortunes.

So while I wouldn't have played with him in a band again, I sympathised with how his life had completely gone down the toilet. He died aged 62 as a result of his booze'n'fags regime.

 

[Sean]

11 hours ago, Mrbigstuff said:

Yet sadly I’ve read anecdotes indicating for many years, across many industries, people did. 

Yes, I have loads of experiences in the workplace from the corporate centre of a FTSE100. I spent a lot of time with HR supporting reports and team members on incidents of racism, transphobia, homophobia, sexism, anti-tattoo views, general bullying.  I call it out and fight all the way. One particular director managed to tick all the boxes but was defended because he was Chinese and "it's part of their culture" even though the company policy was that anyone's culture didn't override policy. 

 

I acknowledge that when you're doing anything for a living, have limited choices and need the remuneration, it influences decisions. Although prolonged exposure to those sort of environments takes an emotional toll.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I wouldn't be in a band with someone who has bigoted views. Several years ago I almost joined a band which was newly forming where the keyboard player told an unpleasant racist joke at the first rehearsal. This was the first time any of the band members had met each other and he probably felt that it was safe as everyone in the room was a white male old enough to remember the 70s. He was also more 'Jools Holland' than 'Booker T', overplaying rinky-dink piano over everything and polluting my sonic space with his left hand.

 

I wouldn't be in a band with bigots like JK Rowking or Graham Lineham either.

[tegs07]

10 minutes ago, Sean said:

Yes, I have loads of experiences in the workplace from the corporate centre of a FTSE100. I spent a lot of time with HR supporting reports and team members on incidents of racism, transphobia, homophobia, sexism, anti-tattoo views, general bullying.  I call it out and fight all the way. One particular director managed to tick all the boxes but was defended because he was Chinese and "it's part of their culture" even though the company policy was that anyone's culture didn't override policy. 

 

I acknowledge that when you're doing anything for a living, have limited choices and need the remuneration, it influences decisions. Although prolonged exposure to those sort of environments takes an emotional toll.

The theme of bullying is interesting in terms of the current economic and political situation. I think a lot of workers, particularly on the lower pay scales feel bullied. They feel powerless to change anything and victimised. Add social media to this and you get a toxic circle of reinforcement.

The really bizarre thing (for me personally) is they are looking to elect even bigger bullies as a solution to their problems. 

[Misdee]

59 minutes ago, cetera said:

Point missed, as usual...

 

The only person talking about bandmates shouting at hotels is you. This discussion is much wider and more nuanced than that, but again your use of sarcasm betrays you....

You are, apparently, unable to differentiate between irony,satire and sarcasm.

 

You need to go back and read the thread. Other posters referenced shouting at asylum hotels  ect. as a benchmark of the unacceptable.That's why I mentioned it.  

 

FWIW, I'm not having a go at you. I don't know why you would think I was. I think you are posing a very interesting question. I'm trying to give you a nuanced answer, i.e it's not someone's opinions so much as how stupid or smart, charmless or charming the person expressing them is  whether I could play in a band with them. So if it was Morrissey I could put up with a lot. If it was Jim Davidson, less so.

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Misdee

[cetera]

13 minutes ago, Misdee said:

You need to go back and read the thread. Other posters referenced shouting at asylum hotels  ect. as a benchmark of the unacceptable.That's why I mentioned it.  

 

You need to go back and read the thread. YOU mentioned 'band mates' shouting at hotels. Noone else has mentioned that at all. 

 

But anyway.... back to hearing the views of more of our bellow bass brethren...

Edited 3 hours ago by cetera

[Steve Browning]

We're all going to have different tolerance levels. It's only natural. 

 

I read the OP as being someone who was evangelical about their beliefs.

 

I have a long standing mate with whom I disagree profoundly about their own political beliefs. Neither of us thrust our view down the others throat, and we get on fine.

 

In circumstances where your livelihood is at risk, then you have to consider things carefully in reality. 

 

If you play for fun  then continually listening to some bore going on about something you are not comfortable with, then staying around seems pointless, and frustrating. 

[Misdee]

1 minute ago, cetera said:

You need to go back and read the thread. YOU mentioned 'band mates' shouting at hotels. Noone else has mentioned that at all. 

Yes they did.

[Lozz196]

I must be fortunate that I`ve not really encountered much actual racism at all throughout my life. Had a mate who when drunk would spout off about the Irish (his Mum was Irish so no clues there) and another mate who although it appeared he didn`t much like black people he had two black children, so again no actual clues there. Me & my other mates just thought they were a bit/lot confused/stupid.

[J66Bass]

NO in CAPITAL 

[Steve Browning]

1 minute ago, J66Bass said:

NO in CAPITAL 

 

Reminds me of the immortal line (Battle Of Britain 1967) - "Silence. In Polish!".

[chris_b]

This is getting techy and it doesn't have to.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by chris_b

[HeadlessBassist]

2 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

 

Reminds me of the immortal line (Battle Of Britain 1967) - "Silence. In Polish!".

 

Or even, "So Sir Arthur, what did you think to the war?"

 

"The war? I was totally against it."

 

"I think we all were..."

 

"Ah yes, but I wrote a letter!"

[Gank Bass]

9 minutes ago, chris_b said:

This is getting techy and it doesn't have to.

 

 

 

You should see the 4 Vs 5 string thread