D.I. output from Bass Amplifiers

[Bigbri5050]

I have a great Fender Rumble 100 amp.  However, the d.i. signal vanishes when you turn down the amplifier volume.  I need the signal to remain for the mixing desk even when I turn my amp down.  In this case the p.a. monitors and IEM's give me the sound I need.  Do you know of any amps that will do this?  I've tried asking the manufacturers but not sure the front-line staff will understand the issue.

[Dad3353]

11 minutes ago, Bigbri5050 said:

I have a great Fender Rumble 100 amp.  However, the d.i. signal vanishes when you turn down the amplifier volume.  I need the signal to remain for the mixing desk even when I turn my amp down.  In this case the p.a. monitors and IEM's give me the sound I need.  Do you know of any amps that will do this?  I've tried asking the manufacturers but not sure the front-line staff will understand the issue.

 

Technical information from the Fender site for the Rumble 100 states (my bold...) ...

 

ADDENDUM / TECHNICAL NOTE
Due to ongoing supply issues, some units may be built with an
alternate power supply and amplifier module. This will not change
the audio performance of the product; however, these units
require a 4-ohm speaker rather than the original 8-ohm specification. Should replacement of a speaker ever be required, qualified
service personnel should note the impedance rating (8 ohms or 4
ohms) indicated on the speaker itself and use a replacement with
the same impedance rating.
Additionally, units built with the alternate power module include
the added pre/post switch that lets the user set the XLR output to
provide pre- (direct) or post-preamp/EQ signal.

 

It would depend, then, on the exact model of your amp whether it has this feature or not.

[Downunderwonder]

Use the fx send to another DI.

[JoeEvans]

I don't think I've had an amp where the DI output was affected by the volume, that seems like a weird way to build an amp to me. But maybe it's common enough, I don't know...

[TimR]

You can get a DI box for £20.

[casapete]

I have a Rumble 100v3 combo and the DI is affected this way, but the larger 200 and 500

versions are not. It’s the only thing I don’t like about it, but as Tim says above a cheap

DI box is the solution if you can’t live with it. For how I use mine it’s not a problem.

[BigRedX]

Completely crap design. DI output should not be affected by the master volume control.

 

Whoever decided that this was acceptable shouldn't be allowed to design any more musical equipment because they are clearly not competent.

 

Like the others I'd suggest a separate DI box with a loop through that you put between the effects send and return, However IME any amp that has the DI out after the master volume control may also have the effects loop in the same (wrong) place. If you can check to see if the effects send is affected by the master volume before shelling out on a DI box that would be sensible.

[Woodinblack]

according to the rumble 100 circuit diagram which is on line, the main volume is actually before the EQ, so yes, the volume affects the outputs. The circuit doesn't seem to have a pre/post DI switch so I assume it is before the change noted by Dad above.

It does seem odd, on my amps (BAM200, TC450, ABM600, CTM100, etc) or even the ME90B effects, the DI wasn't effected by the volume*, which seems the right way.

 

* note, the DI on the ME90B isn't affected by the volume knob, which changes the overal volume of the jack output, but it is affected by the volume pedal, which again seems right as that is an effect.

[Wolfram]

This always confused me too. I have a Mesa Carbine M3 combo - and the DI is taken post master volume, and the DI level (for which there's a pot) is affected by master volume level too. Really poor design on an otherwise superb combo because it limits what you can do with it in a sudio recording setting. Surely just a pre/post switch for the DI would have solved this cheaply and easily? 

[MartinB]

8 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Use the fx send to another DI.

 

The fun thing about these amps is that the FX loop also comes after the master volume 🙃
Really the only option is to stick a DI box between the bass and the amp

[Wolfram]

1 minute ago, MartinB said:

 

The fun thing about these amps is that the FX loop also comes after the master volume 🙃
Really the only option is to stick a DI box between the bass and the amp

Yes but then you lose the preamp and tone stack colour. 

[MichaelDean]

It sounds like you might be better served with a preamp pedal of some sort anyway. If you're going direct and don't need any stage volume... It'll be less gear to take to gigs.

[Lozz196]

This is why I`ve in the past preferred to DI from a Sansamp/equivalent preamp, that way I can adjust volume or eq on the amp to suit the stage without affecting the FOH mix.

[MartinB]

14 minutes ago, Wolfram said:

Yes but then you lose the preamp and tone stack colour. 

Yep, that's why it's an unhelpful design. You could do something daft like a DI box in the effects loop followed by a clean boost that would act as your master volume, but (a) it could introduce noise, and (b) you shouldn't have to go to these lengths

[gjones]

The Orange Terror bass head has the same issue.

[pete.young]

10 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Additionally, units built with the alternate power module include
the added pre/post switch that lets the user set the XLR output to
provide pre- (direct) or post-preamp/EQ signal.

 

It would depend, then, on the exact model of your amp whether it has this feature or not.

 

I don't think this is the likely cause. Post pre-amp signal is normally taken before the feeed goes to the power amp so won't be affected by the master volume. My TecAmp works this way.

 

I think this must be a design feature of the Rumble 100.

 

 

[Bigguy2017]

11 hours ago, Bigbri5050 said:

I have a great Fender Rumble 100 amp.  However, the d.i. signal vanishes when you turn down the amplifier volume.  I need the signal to remain for the mixing desk even when I turn my amp down.  In this case the p.a. monitors and IEM's give me the sound I need.  Do you know of any amps that will do this?  I've tried asking the manufacturers but not sure the front-line staff will understand the issue.

Yes, this is an annoying 'feature' - at practice volume in the house, the DI output is very low level - the Master Vol should be at the input of the Power Amp not before the EQs

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Wolfram said:

Yes but then you lose the preamp and tone stack colour. 

 

On a combo like this the tone stack is mostly compensating for the speaker/cab so any setting that doesn't take this in account is not particularly useful.

 

The OP would probably be better off getting rid of this combo and buying that has been properly designed.

[Downunderwonder]

Work around round 2: install a switch to cut out the speaker.