Amp or no amp...?

[uk_lefty]

In the last year I've done probably half my gigs via a DI pedal instead of an amp. I've had an MXR M80 and now an EBS pedal with all my other FX in its loop. The sound quality I've had has been mostly very good. My band now owns active subs for the PA so on the most part I don't really need to be filling a venue with bass from an on stage amp. The drummer plays an electronic kit and one of the guitarist goes amp-less now. 

 

I've been toying with selling off my Ashdown rig and my SWR Working pro and going for one of the Boss Katana amps. I persuaded myself I'd regret that so took my amp to gig last weekend even though I didn't need it. We were using the venue PA and I had bass coming out my monitor which sounded different to my amp behind me. Depending on where I stood I was getting more of one source of bass sound than the other to the point where it became a bit distracting.

 

Do I really need an ABM600 and two 15" cabs? It just feels like overkill now. I don't use it at all at home, preferring my SWR combo for quick plug n play. I worry that one day I might need the full wallop of the amp and regret not having it, but realistically I haven't had to run amp only with no PA support for over a year.

 

What should I do...?

[SimonK]

I just had a whatsapp message from our guitarist saying don't bring my amp this weekend as we are Di'ing and using IEMs. However, my "DI" is my Aguilar 350 and a convenient seat/table is the 2x10... just in case...

 

I think if I ever had to rely on public transport or storage space/money became a problem I would think again, but the security of having my own amp as a backup is not something I'm willing to give up.

[Chienmortbb]

Well never say never. Why not keep the head and look for a single cab? the 15" cabs will not be to current norms and certainly sound different to a modern PA speaker. A single FRFR cab would suit you well,  but make sure it is a good FRFR cab. Some of the "boutique" cabs are not FRFR. Alternatively look at a really good PA cabinet but by really good, I mean quite expensive.

 

I can only recommend what I have used. As that is not an extensive list I won't really say what you should go for but if you change bands, you may regret closing off the traditional back-line route.

 

[chris_b]

Most of the dozen or so band leaders I play with are die-hards, still doing it the old fashioned way.

 

I have done DI/fold back gigs and see no problem in that method, but an amp is essential to the way I gig.

 

My advice to the OP would be to keep a rig handy. You never know when your circumstances might change.

[EliasMooseblaster]

50 minutes ago, chris_b said:

My advice to the OP would be to keep a rig handy. You never know when your circumstances might change.

 

This is the crux of it really - it depends so much on the PA system at the gig! If the band's bringing its own small-ish PA that's only really handling vocals and maybe an acoustic guitar, you're best bringing your ABM and cab(s). If the venue has a massive in-house system that handles everything, save your back and bring a decent DI/preamp. (I wish I'd learned that lesson sooner...)

[BigRedX]

As everyone is probably bored of hearing now, I sold off my traditional bass rigs over years ago now and I haven't missed them in the slightest.

 

I the band is running its own PA I would consider replacing your existing rig with an FRFR that could double as foldback if required.

[Lozz196]

Like others above I’d say keep hold of some form of backline rig, just in case. 

[jezzaboy]

On 21/03/2024 at 16:01, BigRedX said:

As everyone is probably bored of hearing now, I sold off my traditional bass rigs over years ago now and I haven't missed them in the slightest.

 

I the band is running its own PA I would consider replacing your existing rig with an FRFR that could double as foldback if required.

I`m in the same boat. I use an RCF 715 but I bought an Ashdown ABM 500 combo recently as it`s what I used in the past. The RCF and a pre amp pedal or two totally gave it a damm good spanking and I won`t be going back the traditional bass amp again. The RCF can carry the sound if I`m not going through the pa and we are a loud band. 

[Phil Starr]

I'm in the "just in case" bracket. I don't gig with backline but I keep my options open with backline that stays at home most of the time. My experience so far is that the gear is more reliable than bands which tend to run for only a few years so I keep back line just in case I need to dep or audition again. None of my three current bands use backline and two of them use an electric kit. I'm lucky enough that I don't need to spend the income from gigs on anything other than music so I can pretty much afford what I want. I also design and build cabs as a passion so I'd find it hard to give up backline completely even though it stays at home.

 

My backline is an LFSys Monaco and a Bugera Veyron. The Monaco is IMO the best 12" FRFR bass cab on the market and I chose the Veyron as the most neutral sounding of my amps. I've also got a BC110T which I use more often as it's even lighter and smaller and more than enough as a stage monitor. The Monaco will go conveniently louder than any drummer so my initial thought of one 12 for smaller gigs and a second for bigger ones has been shelved.

[joel406]

Amps are obsolete. Good IEM's and a Quadcortex will sound better any day. Don't forget your wireless.

[Davy]

I've done both but kept my backline gear and was eventually bullied into using backline again by the rest of the band who use in ears but still use backline and an acoustic kit.

I have to say that using in ears and a preamp pedal instead of backline was a revelation, not just for the amazing sound quality of the bass but also it helped my singing, protected my ears and stopped me playing my bass really hard just to be able to hear it.

I would say that it's a bit isolating using in ears and no backline and I think my ideal scenario would be to use backline but just played at sensible volume with the PA doing all of the work out front.

Sadly that the rarely happens in a rock covers bands with 2 guitarists! 😭

[BassmanPaul]

On 21/03/2024 at 10:13, uk_lefty said:

 I haven't had to run amp only with no PA support for over a year

In my mind a year is nothing compared to a life time of playing. You never know what tomorrow will bring. You sell your stuff and possibly you might be in a position where you need it again.

[BigRedX]

14 hours ago, BassmanPaul said:

In my mind a year is nothing compared to a life time of playing. You never know what tomorrow will bring. You sell your stuff and possibly you might be in a position where you need it again.

 

Only reason for this is if you are essentially a dep player, and find yourself in situations that require different amplification solutions.

 

If my no backline band was to come to and end I would only be interested in joining another with a similar outlook to amplification.

[Pirellithecat]

On 23/03/2024 at 09:49, Davy said:

I've done both but kept my backline gear and was eventually bullied into using backline again by the rest of the band who use in ears but still use backline and an acoustic kit.

I have to say that using in ears and a preamp pedal instead of backline was a revelation, not just for the amazing sound quality of the bass but also it helped my singing, protected my ears and stopped me playing my bass really hard just to be able to hear it.

I would say that it's a bit isolating using in ears and no backline and I think my ideal scenario would be to use backline but just played at sensible volume with the PA doing all of the work out front.

Sadly that the rarely happens in a rock covers bands with 2 guitarists! 😭

You're not alone!!!

[uk_lefty]

So I've gone backwards and forwards and all the way round again several times. Last night had a good chat with the soundman at our venue and he is persuading me. I think I should keep some form of good quality gigging amp but also allow myself the option of in-ears. 

 

Guitarist has gone IEM for ages now and runs off a Blackstar DI pedal. Soundman complimented him on how great it sounded for a modeller pedal. I had fantastic bass sound out my amp, ABM600, but quite a muddy sound from my foldback and at times struggled for the clarity, especially when moving around. Where I think this will really help is the gigs where we need to take our own PA. No more lugging monitors, getting monitor mix right, fighting feedback...

[Bleat]

Personally I want a bass rig behind me at a gig. It's what I've always done, it's all part of the look and live sound experience especially for classic rock type bands which is all I'm interested in as a player. I'm not getting younger but am lucky to be reasonably fit. If I should get to a point where I can't physically manage to cart an amp of some sort around, it would be the end of looking to join bands/ live playing for me. 

[JPJ]

I’m on the journey towards no backline. As I’ve said on here I’ve gone from a 1500W amp and two 4x10’s down to a 400W 1x15 Neo equipped combo. I now let the PA do the work and the combo is there just as my personal monitor. Its taken me a long time and a lot of experimentation to get a FOH bass sound I’m happy with, and I’m just about there with my IEM feed sound too, so I’m not far away from going no amp. That said, both of my bands have guitarists who are wedded to their small all valve combos so it probably won’t happen anytime soon. As to whether I would I ever sell all my amps, that’s a definite no. As others have said, the minute I did Sod’s Law says I'd get the offer of an interesting gig/dep that required decent backline. 

[Franticsmurf]

I've been ampless/IEM in the main band for 18 months now and I like the simplicity of carry-in/out (although I no longer have an excuse for not helping carry the PA gear now 😃) but I miss the sound of the bass behind me. The IEM set up gives me much better sound clarity, particularly with the backing vocals, and as we have a permanent sound man, I know I'm getting a good and consistent sound out front.

 

I still have an amp and speakers for depping and any other band work I do.

[David Cook]

I am about to show my ignorance so bear with. If you don’t have an amp or at least a monitor how do you hear yourself? I do own a Line 6 bass pod live and a couple of di pedals that will send a signal to the desk but I am still competing with a keyboard monitor, a guitar amp and mics with monitors plus a drummer. Is it a case of all go amp less or no one does plus ditch the drummer lol

[uk_lefty]

6 minutes ago, David Cook said:

If you don’t have an amp or at least a monitor how do you hear yourself?

By having the PA mixer send a signal to a wireless box that transmits a custom mix to in-ear-monitors (posh headphones). Problem is that these set ups can be very expensive and make you feel a bit isolated.

 

This way you can keep stage noise to a minimum but still have the PA pumping out good quality sound. 

 

I have done gigs with no amp but using the stage wedge monitors as my way to hear my bass sound, that works but isn't ideal.

[NHM]

I wouldn't feel right without a stack behind me. Having gear on stage is part of the show / image. I can see the obvious benefits of going 'In ears', but is it rock 'n' roll?

[uk_lefty]

13 hours ago, NHM said:

I wouldn't feel right without a stack behind me. Having gear on stage is part of the show / image. I can see the obvious benefits of going 'In ears', but is it rock 'n' roll?

I know what you mean. The guitarist having a few small briefcase sized flight cases behind him and a Coop bag for life isn't the image, but once the smoke and lights get going I'm not sure it's so relevant. On Fridays gig I was getting good sound from my on stage rig, muddy sound from my wedge, went on a walkabout and heard the bass sounding perfect through the FOH. It's that conflict between the different sound sources that is starting to p me off, standing in the sweet spot to get the right balance isn't always an option.

[Franticsmurf]

15 hours ago, David Cook said:

I am about to show my ignorance so bear with. If you don’t have an amp or at least a monitor how do you hear yourself? I do own a Line 6 bass pod live and a couple of di pedals that will send a signal to the desk but I am still competing with a keyboard monitor, a guitar amp and mics with monitors plus a drummer. Is it a case of all go amp less or no one does plus ditch the drummer lol

Same as @uk_lefty above. I've been using earplugs to manage the onstage volume for years so to move to in ear monitoring wasn't as much of a change as it could have been. It does leave you feeling a bit isolated, but if your monitor mix is good (and it took me a while to get it right) then there's little problem. Some folk get around the isolation by having one or more ambience mics feeding into their mix - these pick up the audience and the general stage ambience which can help with the isolation thing. 

 

I started off just having the bass and vocals feeding in to a Behringer P1 and using earpieces that didn't completely isolate me from the rest of the band (who weren't using IEM). I found it was easier for me to hear my vocals, which was the main reason I started using earpieces. Now I'm playing in the Hulla band, there are 13 regularly on stage and being able to isolate from the brass is great. I've just started using a Behringer P16 which connects via Cat5 cable to the pre-fade of the FOH X32 so that I can control my own monitor mix in real time. 

 

I certainly wouldn't rule out playing with backline again - as I said I miss that sound behind me - but for what I'm doing at the moment, the IEM set up works well. And I can't advocate ditching the drummer as he gives me a lift to and from rehearsals! 😂

[BigRedX]

I don't miss having a bass rig behind me in the slightest.

 

1. I have never been in a band that needed to be so loud on stage that I could actually feel the air moving, and I've been in some loud bands in the past. I suspect if I had, I'd be even more deaf than I am.

 

2. On any decent sized stage the moment that I stepped away from standing directly in from of my rig  I could no longer hear it and it turned into a big, heavy expensive stage prop.

 

3. At smaller gigs I was often asked by the sound engineer to turn down so much, so as not to affect the FoH mix, that I could hear myself better from the guitarist's wedge monitor on the other side of the stage than I could from my rig directly behind me. At some gigs we would deliberately aim the cabs sideways across the stage to minimise the FoH spill. 

 

4. Most of the gigs I have done over the pst 45 years have had PA support for the whole band. On the few occasions that I have needed my bass rig to provide sound for the audience I have ended up needing to be so loud on stage that I could barely hear the rest of the band. It was not a pleasant experience.

 

These days I have a Helix for my sound and an FRFR for rehearsals and personal monitoring for the smaller gigs where the foldback is strictly vocals only or unknown. For the bigger gigs I just use the in-house PA foldback. If I could organise the rest of either of my bands enough to go IEMs then I would. I do most of my composing using headphones and I always mange the get the songs sounding exciting enough at those kinds of levels so I wouldn't find it limiting or isolating in any way. 

[SimonK]

...as long as the sound engineer knows what they are doing IEMs are great. If they don't - as is the case for 90% of the times I play - an amp is still necessary (and as I said above I always bring one just in case). I also have to admit I like the look of my stage rig... it makes me smile.

Edited 5 hours ago by SimonK