Through neck build 10+ years in the making!

[MichaelDean]

So, I started making a bass 10+ years ago. I got it close to finishing, but mucked it up. I decided that frets were too hard, so put some veneer in the fret slots. Then I decided I hate fretless bass (for me) 😅 I then re-cut the fret slots and attempted to fret it, but I cut them by eye and they were a bit wide, and the frets wouldn't sit nicely so I started glueing them. I also noticed at this point, that I hadn't properly radiuses the fretboard. And then I didn't clamp the frets while glueing and they don't sit nicely. It's also a boat anchor. I haven't weighed it, but it's got to be north of 10lbs. 

 

It seems like such a waste to get rid of it, but I'm not sure that I'll get the use out of it that I put in even if I get it finished. What would you do? 

 

To finish it, I'd probably want to shave some extra thickness off the back as a bit of weight relief, and either remove the frets (if possible) and re-radius and install frets, or replace the fretboard and then put new frets. 

 

Here's a pic of the monster in question at one point. Walnut wings, neck through zebrano and a wenge fretboard with a Glockenklang preamp and Nordstrand Zen Blade pickups. 

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by MichaelDean
Changed the thread title

[ahpook]

You put an awful lot of work into that, I'd say it definitely deserves another chance. Is a trip to a luthier an option ? See if they can sort out the neck ? Maybe some of the Basschat bass building folk can offer some advice.

 

Even if it's heavy - just play it at home. Enjoy your handiwork.

 

You absolutely have to resurrect it - you made a bass !

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by ahpook

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

If you were to list it on ebay as an extreme limited edition from a boutique builder, you wouldn't be the first to do this.

[MichaelDean]

4 hours ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

If you were to list it on ebay as an extreme limited edition from a boutique builder, you wouldn't be the first to do this.

I'll do a quick headless conversion first 👍

[AndyTravis]

Would another luthier/builder be able to get it across the line?

 

it’s hard - I lived 18 years with a builder (my dad) and my mums complaint for years was that he started jobs in his own house and never finished.

 

it looks brilliant 

[LowB_FTW]

You absolutely should - IMO - try to resurrect the build.

I don't expect it'll be an easy endeavour to remove the existing fretboard for a new one - it looks like it's a neck-through (or is it through-neck? What's the correct term? *shrug*) but if that's the extent of the issue then I personally think you should give it some thought and research and at least try to save it.

There's a lot of work gone in to it already, just a little more can't hurt, can it?

 

Mark

[Reggaebass]

After all that great work you’ve put in to it I’d maybe just get someone to sort the neck and fret it for you if you don’t want to do it, I wouldn’t worry about the weight, nice work 

[MichaelDean]

Thanks for the encouragement all. I'm limited on what I have to hand tool wise though. When I started on it, I was using a friends workshop. I now only have a workmate in the garden! Plus I have an almost 18 month old toddler, so it's difficult finding the time. Maybe I try and remove a fret or two and see how it goes. I've got a feeling the zebrano will chip out a lot though. It can be quite brittle. 

[velvetkevorkian]

YMMV, but if having it around is going to make you feel guilty, or you don't have the time/means to get it to a standard you're happy with, I wouldn't feel bad about stripping it for parts and chalking it up to experience.

[Mottlefeeder]

3 hours ago, velvetkevorkian said:

YMMV, but if having it around is going to make you feel guilty, or you don't have the time/means to get it to a standard you're happy with, I wouldn't feel bad about stripping it for parts and chalking it up to experience.

That is my take too. I build electronic gadgets, park the ones that didn't work, and use the ones that work until making a Mk 2 is required.

 

Park your project for several months. If you still don't feel inclined to fix it, or don't feel you have the skills to fix it, or don't feel inclined to pay to have it fixed, strip it for parts and reuse/dispose of them.

 

David

[tauzero]

Could you take the frets out and plane the fretboard off, then put a new fretboard on and fret it? Jon Shuker did the planing the board off and replacing it part of that exercise for me to get the original defretted fretboard off my Thumb now-fretless and put an unlined ebony fingerboard onto it.

[MichaelDean]

10 minutes ago, tauzero said:

Could you take the frets out and plane the fretboard off, then put a new fretboard on and fret it? Jon Shuker did the planing the board off and replacing it part of that exercise for me to get the original defretted fretboard off my Thumb now-fretless and put an unlined ebony fingerboard onto it.

That's not a terrible idea. Seems a bit easier than trying to steam it off and if I went with a different wood for the fretboard again, I could have a nice accent layer!

Edited August 7, 2023 by MichaelDean
Word change

[Guest]

Aie! = Ouch!

Pareil, je pense que je démonterai toutes les pièces utiles, et recommencerai de zéro.

[Jabba_the_gut]

I'd be inclined to remove the fretboard, radius and slot a new one and fit it. Be a shame not see it complete after all the other work - some nice looking wood on that too!

 

Cheers

Jez

[Newfoundfreedom]

I think it's definitely a lost cause. 

 

Just cut your losses and get rid of it. 

 

I'll PM you my address. 

[Mottlefeeder]

You said it weighs like a boat anchor - that isn't going to change much by taking some material off the back, and you then run the risk of it being neck heavy.

 

Before you put more effort into it, ask yourself, are you going to play this regularly, because you like it, or occasionally, out of guilt, because you put lots of money/effort into it?

 

If your only motivation is 'I've started so I must finish' then you are basically making an ornament. Advertise it and let it go.

 

David

[3below]

Drastic mass reduction might require routing cutouts, think Ibanez jem guitar but done tastefully in keeping with your design. Keep on with it, part of the fun is getting yourself out of the blunders. You have got this far, it is all good skill building stuff. Next time you won't make the same mistakes new ones will just appear

Edited August 8, 2023 by 3below

[Andyjr1515]

That's a splendid looking bass!

 

On the one hand, non-playable but nice looking builds make for a perfect wall hanging subjects   (Ask me how I know  )

 

 

On the other hand - yes, I'm sure that would be fixable both in terms of weight and fretboard.  But yes, there's quite a bit of work involved. 

 

Just some thoughts from someone who's hacked, bashed, b******d and built most varieties of bass and guitar over the past few years:

 

- don't worry too much about the Workmate.  All of my early builds and mods were done with one, including at least two NoTreble 'Bass of the Week''s!  But: yes, it slows everything down waiting for dry weather; cleaning up is a pain; it makes for a challenge if you are planing...the force of the plane tends to push the workmate round the garden rather than cutting neat curls of wood shaving.

 

- You would be able to take a significant amount of weight out without affecting the on-the-strap balance as your front strap pin is very well placed.  Over the knee, yes it might be a bit neck heavy

 

- Reducing thickness of the body is by far the most effective way of reducing weight as long as your pickup chambers are shallow enough to allow.  Your sticky out length of the through neck with the tuners will be 3lbs-ish.  Your pickups, etc, prob 1.5lbs-ish - so your body wood is going to be around 5.5lbs.  If it's, say 35mm thick and you are able to take 10mm off without bursting into the pickup chambers, you will lose 1.6lbs weight.  Routing a chamber in the back of upper horn (which won't adversely impact on the balance) might take out another 0.4lbs  - retro-chambering doesn't take out anywhere as much weight as you expect.  But you then have an 8lb bass that still balances on the strap.

 

- Fretboard-wise, yes you have a choice - and I think it's as broad as it's long.  Personally, I would take the board off and start again with a new blank (if you bought the blank from David Dyke, pretty sure they still do a slotting service for not much at all).  But that's maybe because I've removed fretboards a few times.

 

 

[Guest]

pour modifier l'équilibre, on peut faire ça:

[MichaelDean]

37 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

That's a splendid looking bass!

 

On the one hand, non-playable but nice looking builds make for a perfect wall hanging subjects   (Ask me how I know  )

 

 

On the other hand - yes, I'm sure that would be fixable both in terms of weight and fretboard.  But yes, there's quite a bit of work involved. 

 

Just some thoughts from someone who's hacked, bashed, b******d and built most varieties of bass and guitar over the past few years:

 

- don't worry too much about the Workmate.  All of my early builds and mods were done with one, including at least two NoTreble 'Bass of the Week''s!  But: yes, it slows everything down waiting for dry weather; cleaning up is a pain; it makes for a challenge if you are planing...the force of the plane tends to push the workmate round the garden rather than cutting neat curls of wood shaving.

 

- You would be able to take a significant amount of weight out without affecting the on-the-strap balance as your front strap pin is very well placed.  Over the knee, yes it might be a bit neck heavy

 

- Reducing thickness of the body is by far the most effective way of reducing weight as long as your pickup chambers are shallow enough to allow.  Your sticky out length of the through neck with the tuners will be 3lbs-ish.  Your pickups, etc, prob 1.5lbs-ish - so your body wood is going to be around 5.5lbs.  If it's, say 35mm thick and you are able to take 10mm off without bursting into the pickup chambers, you will lose 1.6lbs weight.  Routing a chamber in the back of upper horn (which won't adversely impact on the balance) might take out another 0.4lbs  - retro-chambering doesn't take out anywhere as much weight as you expect.  But you then have an 8lb bass that still balances on the strap.

 

- Fretboard-wise, yes you have a choice - and I think it's as broad as it's long.  Personally, I would take the board off and start again with a new blank (if you bought the blank from David Dyke, pretty sure they still do a slotting service for not much at all).  But that's maybe because I've removed fretboards a few times.

 

 

I was hoping you'd chime in Andy. You always have very practical responses.

 

I keep changing my mind, but I think I'm also coming to the conclusion that removing the fretboard is probably the best bet. I might try and find a zebrano board to make it a bit more invisible. The wenge looked better in combination with other woods in my head than it does in person. Stainless steel frets were also a poor choice for the first time. I found them difficult to work with without the correct tools. I'd wager nickel would be easier.

 

The body is roughly 45mm thick (I was googling and this seemed common for a Fender style bass, so went with that), so should be able to take it down 10mm without too much bother (measuremets allowing). And if I plug and re-drill the holes for the strap buttons, they'll likely be invisible when re-drilling. It would also allow me the opportunity to redo the awful job I did routing the recess for the battery box and cavity cover. I was also considering doing a "handle" style hole through the top section, but with the neck access scoop at the back, it might not make much weight difference anyway. The only advantage of a thru neck on a workmate is that you can clamp the fretboard edges in the gap!

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, MichaelDean said:

I was hoping you'd chime in Andy. You always have very practical responses.

 

I keep changing my mind, but I think I'm also coming to the conclusion that removing the fretboard is probably the best bet. I might try and find a zebrano board to make it a bit more invisible. The wenge looked better in combination with other woods in my head than it does in person. Stainless steel frets were also a poor choice for the first time. I found them difficult to work with without the correct tools. I'd wager nickel would be easier.

 

The body is roughly 45mm thick (I was googling and this seemed common for a Fender style bass, so went with that), so should be able to take it down 10mm without too much bother (measuremets allowing). And if I plug and re-drill the holes for the strap buttons, they'll likely be invisible when re-drilling. It would also allow me the opportunity to redo the awful job I did routing the recess for the battery box and cavity cover. I was also considering doing a "handle" style hole through the top section, but with the neck access scoop at the back, it might not make much weight difference anyway. The only advantage of a thru neck on a workmate is that you can clamp the fretboard edges in the gap!

Just checked and David Dyke don't do Zebrano for fingerboards, but there are some decent timbers in their bass range.  And yes - as stated here below - they still do a fret slotting service.  It's well worth thinking about and I'm pretty sure it is not a large on-cost  :

 

https://luthierssupplies.co.uk/product-category/electric/electric-fingerboards

 

Other suppliers are, of course, available 

 

[MichaelDean]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Just checked and David Dyke don't do Zebrano for fingerboards, but there are some decent timbers in their bass range.  And yes - as stated here below - they still do a fret slotting service.  It's well worth thinking about and I'm pretty sure it is not a large on-cost  :

 

https://luthierssupplies.co.uk/product-category/electric/electric-fingerboards

 

Other suppliers are, of course, available 

 

I've just ordered a slotted and radiused zebrano fretboard from here: https://guitarsandwoods.com/slotted-fretboards-bass-multiple-choice-1215254309.html

 

It being pre-radiused will take some of the work out of it. Yes, I'll have to pay import tax, but it should work out to a similar price to a nice ebony board from DD.

[Andyjr1515]

33 minutes ago, MichaelDean said:

I've just ordered a slotted and radiused zebrano fretboard from here: https://guitarsandwoods.com/slotted-fretboards-bass-multiple-choice-1215254309.html

 

It being pre-radiused will take some of the work out of it. Yes, I'll have to pay import tax, but it should work out to a similar price to a nice ebony board from DD.

Perfect.  G&W are a good supplier.  One of my 'not very interesting claims to fame' is that I wrote their 'How to Set Up the G&W Mitre/Fret Slotting Jig' guide for them .

[MichaelDean]

Got it out of the loft this morning so I can de-solder everything later. It doesn't have a bridge, tuners, strap buttons or strings on at the moment and came in at 4.32kg/9.5lb, I've got a Babicz bridge to go on that is about 140g, plus 325g for the tuners, lets say 40g for the rear cavity plate, 120g for strings and 30g for strap buttons puts it in at around 4.95kg/10.9lb. A weighty beast. If I can get it down to around 4.5kg/10lb total, I'd be very happy.

 

So! What can I take off the back? The holes for the pickup wires come very close to the edge of the body, so I'll need to cover that up with the rear cavity cover. Plus, the height of the preamp means I'll probably only be able to take the back of it down by about 7mm. Pickup chambers are 17mm deep, so no problem with those, but I may want some slightly shorter pickup screws. Might try and get some bolts and threaded inserts. There is a bit more material I could take off around the heel joint though, plus the belly carve will need re-doing once the material has been taken off the back. Those areas won't take off much extra weight, but every little bit will little help.

 

Another option! I make it a double cut... I've tried it and single cut isn't great for access and it would also take a chunk of wood off. It might make it more useable for me and will make clamping the new fretboard a lot easier as I'll be able to get into the bass side.

 

[Andyjr1515]

7mm will certainly help - probably lose 0.8lbs if I have my calcs correct.

 

One thing you could maybe consider is taking more thickness out of the middle area at the back - a bit like Warwick do with their Thumbs.  I've done that on many (most) of my own builds over the past 4-5 years - it has the advantage of taking weight out without vastly reducing the depth of the chambers - this kind of thing:

 

It doesn't have to be as deep as this to still make a big, big difference.  This one was the 34" Jazz bass I built for @Len_derby where we were aiming for 'as light as we could get'.  From memory it ended at around 6.5lbs