Sadowsky Metroline Japan vs Germany

[Undertone]

Has anyone compared (via playing) the Japan vs Germany Sadowsky Metroline please?  I'm interested in a 5-string but am interested in 4-string players comments too of course.  I've read the specs, read the articles, watched videos, but nothing comparing the two, and have played only a couple briefly.  I'd like to hear from folks who have played both (ideally for some time) and have views. Apologies if this has been covered before (in which case do refer me). Thanks

[FDC484950]

I’ve had both and there’s not much at all to choose between them. However I’d compare the proper Japanese Metro basses, not the Metro Express models that were made towards the end of Sadowsky’s Japanese ventures. - they’re OK but somewhat workmanlike and the one I tried had a number of faults. The main difference is that obviously over time the prices have crept up, and they’re now around the £2,500 mark. One notable difference is the lack of an ultra vintage option with block inlays and binding - Sadowsky/Warwick doesn’t currently offer this with the Metroline series. One negative I had with both ranges was poor balance on the jazz 5 - mainly because the weight savings only applied to the body, but also the nature of the jazz body is that balance tends to suffer, especially sitting down. To me the best model is the hybrid PJ - great P bass neck tone and the signature jazz at the bridge. Very good B string on all models. Overall I’d say that theGerman Metrolines are a little better on fit and finish - both basses I owned were superb, the paint job was like glass and the fret ends are hidden from the edge of the board - but pick one up used as IMHO £2.5K for a super PJ/Jazz with limited specs is a bit steep…

[chris_b]

The Metro is the long running Japanese made Sadowsky model. The Japanese Metroline was a short lived attempt to make Sadowsky basses on a factory production line. That didn't seem to go too well and variable manufacturing quality seemed to be an issue. I don't think many were made. Then the Metro's were discontinued and the deal with Warwick was announced. So I think you are probably asking about the Metro basses rather than the Japanese Metrolines.

 

I've been playing a Metro Jazz RV5 for nearly 8 years and it's a good one. I've been trying to replace it with a lighter bass, but haven't found one that sounds or feels as good. Roger Sadowsky said that the Metros were the same quality as his US made NYC basses. They had the same hardware, pickups, preamps etc, but just didn't have the chambering or customization options. A few years ago I played a chambered NYC bass (sadly with neck dive) but felt my Metro sounded and played better.

 

I haven't played a Warwick made Metroline.

Edited November 12, 2022 by chris_b

[Undertone]

Thanks to both of you. I see some of the earlier ones didn't have the vintage tone control (VTC)  (which seems to just be just a tone control that also works in passive mode (do correct me)).  Do you find the VTC critical?

Thanks

[LukeFRC]

6 hours ago, chris_b said:

The Metro is the long running Japanese made Sadowsky model. The Japanese Metroline was a short lived attempt to make Sadowsky basses on a factory production line. That didn't seem to go too well and variable manufacturing quality seemed to be an issue. I don't think many were made. Then the Metro's were discontinued and the deal with Warwick was announced. So I think you are probably asking about the Metro basses rather than the Japanese Metrolines.

 

I've been playing a Metro Jazz RV5 for nearly 8 years and it's a good one. I've been trying to replace it with a lighter bass, but haven't found one that sounds or feels as good. Roger Sadowsky said that the Metros were the same quality as his US made NYC basses. They had the same hardware, pickups, preamps etc, but just didn't have the chambering or customization options. A few years ago I played a chambered NYC bass (sadly with neck dive) but felt my Metro sounded and played better.

 

I haven't played a Warwick made Metroline.

 not quite correct...

Sadowsky Japan had two original ranges - the higher end Japan only Sadowsky TYO and the Sadowsky Metro which were available over here. I think they were manufactured by ESP.

At some point the line that were Sadowsky Metro with "Sadowsky Guitars" on the headstock became known and labelled as Sadowsky Metroline with I don't think any differences other than ones that affected all sadowskys- I can't remember anyone saying anything negative about them (other than the price went up, but it was the post Brexit pound devaluation that caused that).

Roger then wanted to make a cheaper line again - which was the Japanese Sadowsky Metro Express which were built by a Japanese factory for him that wasn't the same dedicated workshop as was doing the construction of the original Japanese Sadowsky. I'm not entirely sure what happened, whether there were too many QC issues being caught or they just couldn't make enough of them fast enough but they didn't last long.

Then our friend Mr Wilfer got involved and everything changes, all the hardware is different and presumably made to different price points for different ranges - so you no have the odd Sadowsky NYC from Roger's workshop and then the German made Sadowsky Custom Shop, Sadowsky Masterbuilt and Sadowsky Metroline, and the much cheaper Sadowsky Metro Express made in China. 

 

[Doctor J]

1 hour ago, Undertone said:

Thanks to both of you. I see some of the earlier ones didn't have the vintage tone control (VTC)  (which seems to just be just a tone control that also works in passive mode (do correct me)).  Do you find the VTC critical?

Thanks

The VTC works in active mode too, it's essential with the Sadowsky pre, IMO.

[FDC484950]

45 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

 not quite correct...

Sadowsky Japan had two original ranges - the higher end Japan only Sadowsky TYO and the Sadowsky Metro which were available over here. I think they were manufactured by ESP.

At some point the line that were Sadowsky Metro with "Sadowsky Guitars" on the headstock became known and labelled as Sadowsky Metroline with I don't think any differences other than ones that affected all sadowskys- I can't remember anyone saying anything negative about them (other than the price went up, but it was the post Brexit pound devaluation that caused that).

Roger then wanted to make a cheaper line again - which was the Japanese Sadowsky Metro Express which were built by a Japanese factory for him that wasn't the same dedicated workshop as was doing the construction of the original Japanese Sadowsky. I'm not entirely sure what happened, whether there were too many QC issues being caught or they just couldn't make enough of them fast enough but they didn't last long.

Then our friend Mr Wilfer got involved and everything changes, all the hardware is different and presumably made to different price points for different ranges - so you no have the odd Sadowsky NYC from Roger's workshop and then the German made Sadowsky Custom Shop, Sadowsky Masterbuilt and Sadowsky Metroline, and the much cheaper Sadowsky Metro Express made in China. 

 

Both of my German Metroline basses had the usual Sadowsky bridge and Sadowsky branded Hipshot ultralites, as well as the same knobs (and the same bourns pots) as come on all Sadowsky basses. IIRC the only difference is the addition of a Warwick just a nut, redesigned for a more traditional look (and very well it works, too). 
 

Regarding VTC it is essential as there’s quite a bit of sizzle on the Sadowsky circuit and it’s boost only so having a tone control on both active and passive is very useful.

Edited November 12, 2022 by FDC484950

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

Both of my German Metroline basses had the usual Sadowsky bridge and Sadowsky branded Hipshot ultralites, as well as the same knobs (and the same bourns pots) as come on all Sadowsky basses. IIRC the only difference is the addition of a Warwick just a nut, redesigned for a more traditional look (and very well it works, too). 
 

Regarding VTC it is essential as there’s quite a bit of sizzle on the Sadowsky circuit and it’s boost only so having a tone control on both active and passive is very useful.

I stand corrected - I had just presumed they were different due to the cheap cost of them aftermarket! 
TBH I can't imagine even if there were differences I can't imagine there's really that much of a difference as it's the same recipe and similar ingredients... 

[Undertone]

Yep. Filtered the history for the facts. Thanks. MetroExpress are not under consideration here - I happened to play one the other day and it was actually impressive for its price (at least for the 5 minute I played it) - but it's not on my radar. Hadn't realised there was a Custom Shop AND a Masterbuilt. Sticking with Metroline - the price point (used) and no need for much custom stuff, works for me.

 

Yep, VTC works in active. But is it defined by that?  or by also working in passive?  That is, in active mode only, is there any difference between a bass with VTC and one without? (I'm unlikely to use a Sadowsky in passive).

 

Thanks for the additional replies! Very helpful!

[Undertone]

Oh, apologies to all also, as I appear to have started this thread in General Discussion instead of Gear...

[LukeFRC]

7 minutes ago, Undertone said:

 

Yep, VTC works in active. But is it defined by that?  or by also working in passive?  That is, in active mode only, is there any difference between a bass with VTC and one without? (I'm unlikely to use a Sadowsky in passive).

In active mode, with a 2 band boost only preamp you don’t have a way to cut the top end at all…

with VTC you do. 
think of a passive jazz with a blend pot- vol, blend and tone

then and bass and treble boost.

that’s why VTC was added - it’s utterly different experience to playing something with say a East Uni pre where you have super precise bass and treble boost and cut and a semi parametric mid….
 

and you might use a Sadowsky in a passive, mine sometimes sounds nicer for some things in passive. 

[Undertone]

Got it.  Thankyou!

[Yetti]

Being lucky enough to actually have one in my collection recently I must say I was blown away by my Metroline Japan MV4. Build quality, stunning tone and tone quality over fretboard plus very very practical and usefull electronics. I own few Laklands and luthier made custom instruments so I wanted to try something completely different. Sadowsky was alway quite "I don't give a f..." in my opinion. For me these basses were suspicious to being only empty hype and with new MetroExpress production made in China it was even worse to me. 

Fortunately, my friends talked me into buying it. So... I paid some money close to new Metroline Germany and bought used Metroline JP and I don't regret. I don't want to gossip Metroline made in Germany but for me it is different story with Japan ones. Frankly speaking same for NYC compared to Japanese. NYC in these days are twice a price to me but still having this magic inside and I think it is worthed. Overall I loved colour and fact that these are not made anymore. Hope you'll find you own!

[bubinga5]

I bought an RV5 direct from Sadowsky back in 2012 for £1700. That bass was phenominal. Incredible sounding and the build quality was just... 

[Obra]

I have not played Sadowsky Japan, but have an opportunity last week to have new German MetroLine Sadowsky series in my studio, so I made an comparison to Fender Performer PJ.

 

Here it is.

 

 

 

[BlueMoon]

On 12/11/2022 at 20:39, LukeFRC said:

At some point the line that were Sadowsky Metro with "Sadowsky Guitars" on the headstock became known and labelled as Sadowsky Metroline with I don't think any differences other than ones that affected all sadowskys

I am lucky enough to have a 2006 Metro (with VTC retrofitted) and a 2017 MetroLine. There are no differences in build quality as far as I can tell. Both are cracking basses.

[cetera]

16 hours ago, Obra said:

I have not played Sadowsky Japan, but have an opportunity last week to have new German MetroLine Sadowsky series in my studio, so I made an comparison to Fender Performer PJ.

 

Here it is.

 

 

 

Gotta say I prefer the Fender. Much nicer, characterful tone. It has an 'identity' that the Sadowsky seems to lack....

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, cetera said:

Gotta say I prefer the Fender. Much nicer, characterful tone. It has an 'identity' that the Sadowsky seems to lack....

 

I couldn't hear any significant difference which couldn't be explained by simply playing very slightly differently. I don't know how much either cost. Both sounded just fine, in all the sequences. I certainly couldn't tell '60s from '70s p/u position. They might as well have been the same bass, for me. 

[Lozz196]

2 hours ago, cetera said:

Gotta say I prefer the Fender. Much nicer, characterful tone. It has an 'identity' that the Sadowsky seems to lack....

Same for me

[ezbass]

2 hours ago, cetera said:

Gotta say I prefer the Fender. Much nicer, characterful tone. It has an 'identity' that the Sadowsky seems to lack....

 

20 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Same for me

Just to show that there is a market for both, I preferred the Sadowsky.

[asingardenof]

On 05/02/2023 at 23:17, Obra said:

I have not played Sadowsky Japan, but have an opportunity last week to have new German MetroLine Sadowsky series in my studio, so I made an comparison to Fender Performer PJ.

 

Here it is.

 

 

 

Is it worth noting that the Fender tone control doesn't function as a regular tone control on the Performer line, in that it cuts the treble and bass whereas the Sadowsky tone control will only cut the treble?

[Obra]

23 hours ago, asingardenof said:

Is it worth noting that the Fender tone control doesn't function as a regular tone control on the Performer line, in that it cuts the treble and bass whereas the Sadowsky tone control will only cut the treble?

 

As I am aware, Fender wrote this on their web site about the tone control on the Performer: ''This uniquely Fender tone system lets you cut treble without losing gain or “muddying” your sound, preserving your carefully shaped tone.''

 

While making the video I heard the difference, and I can explain it so that the Fender makes the sound less muddy, and Sadowsky keep more bass whet turn the tone pot all the way off. 

[chris_b]

I haven't played a German or Chinese model yet, but so far the best Sadowsky I've played has been my Japanese Metro RV5 Jazz.

 

For tone, it beats other Sadowsky's I've played, even an NYC, and the Fender Jazz I briefly owned. It plays beautifully and the sound is huge.

Edited February 8, 2023 by chris_b

[asingardenof]

1 hour ago, Obra said:

 

As I am aware, Fender wrote this on their web site about the tone control on the Performer: ''This uniquely Fender tone system lets you cut treble without losing gain or “muddying” your sound, preserving your carefully shaped tone.''

 

While making the video I heard the difference, and I can explain it so that the Fender makes the sound less muddy, and Sadowsky keep more bass whet turn the tone pot all the way off. 

From what I understand about the Greasebucket tone control it cuts treble and also bass, which as you say makes the tone less muddy by making it more mid-rangey as you roll the tone control back. I tried a Performer Jazz a few years ago and liked the bass in general and the Yosemite pickups a lot, but wasn't overly fond of the Greasebucket.

[Hoffbass]

On 12/11/2022 at 19:39, LukeFRC said:

 not quite correct...

Sadowsky Japan had two original ranges - the higher end Japan only Sadowsky TYO and the Sadowsky Metro which were available over here. I think they were manufactured by ESP.

At some point the line that were Sadowsky Metro with "Sadowsky Guitars" on the headstock became known and labelled as Sadowsky Metroline with I don't think any differences other than ones that affected all sadowskys- I can't remember anyone saying anything negative about them (other than the price went up, but it was the post Brexit pound devaluation that caused that).

Roger then wanted to make a cheaper line again - which was the Japanese Sadowsky Metro Express which were built by a Japanese factory for him that wasn't the same dedicated workshop as was doing the construction of the original Japanese Sadowsky. I'm not entirely sure what happened, whether there were too many QC issues being caught or they just couldn't make enough of them fast enough but they didn't last long.

Then our friend Mr Wilfer got involved and everything changes, all the hardware is different and presumably made to different price points for different ranges - so you no have the odd Sadowsky NYC from Roger's workshop and then the German made Sadowsky Custom Shop, Sadowsky Masterbuilt and Sadowsky Metroline, and the much cheaper Sadowsky Metro Express made in China. 

 

All correct, and just one thing to add. There was no QC issue with MIJ Metroexpress but rather production on a larger scale and distribution. Warwick seemed to be the best solution for Roger as they have all the facilities in Germany and China and massive distribution capacity and connections (Thomann etc...) I am sad to see the MIJ Metroexpress go as they a way better construction than the Chinese ones. The headstock logo was the same ,the hardware and electronics also, and the necks had graphite bars....All of them gone now and it is super hard to find any used for sale.