Overpriced or investment?

[Odin5491]

8 hours ago, neepheid said:

 

Reverends are made in South Korea and they're less than half that price. Mine is excellent, so by your logic they must all be excellent...

 

Am I the only one who finds these kind of blanket statements about instrument quality based upon where they're made because someone has had a bad one a bit... ikky?

 

G&L Tributes are made in Indonesia. So are Lakland Skylines if memory serves. Absolute garbage instruments, amirite?

The G&L Tribute Fallout I recently purchased literally fell apart — two of the holes in the neck join had been drilled too big and packed with sawdust. A strap button and the truss rod were also defective.

 

That said, the 5-string Sire P5 that I bought to replace it (for only £20 more) was superb out of the box, at half the list price of a MiM Fender.

[neepheid]

43 minutes ago, Odin5491 said:

The G&L Tribute Fallout I recently purchased literally fell apart — two of the holes in the neck join had been drilled too big and packed with sawdust. A strap button and the truss rod were also defective.

 

That said, the 5-string Sire P5 that I bought to replace it (for only £20 more) was superb out of the box, at half the list price of a MiM Fender.

 

 

 

That's inexcusable. 

 

Just to balance things out (or try to counteract the confirmation bias), the G&L Tribute LB-100 I bought in December 2021 is excellent.  In fact, every G&L Tribute I've ever owned (L-2000, M-2000, SB-2, LB-100) has been great.

 

 

[Misdee]

On 08/08/2022 at 22:11, OliverBlackman said:

Prices of basses are now crazy IMO and even the standard US made basses now feel out of reach.

 

Take the standard series US made Fender P. In 2008 it was listed at $1600 - roughly £850 at the time. Now the professional II are nearly £2k on their website. Where’s the difference?
 

If the price had followed inflation since 2008, BoE calculations has 2021 price at £1.2k. 
 

With many salaries not following suit, it’s no wonder (pandemic aside) instrument sales have been declining. 

Buying a new bass made in the USA you are bound to be left sucking lemons if you start looking at the price in relation to what it retails for in the States. 

 

However, it's a lot more complicated than that. America is a low taxation economy compared to the UK. People get to keep more of their wages and overall taxes are lower.  That lower taxation is reflected in the price of consumer goods.

 

However, the other side of that coin is that folks are expected to pay themselves for things we take for granted in the UK. Like healthcare, social services ect. And don't expect the government to step in and help you if you fall on hard times.

 

You can't just look at the lower cost of fun stuff in America and lament how we are getting ripped off in this country. Yes the exchange rate is terrible at the moment, but inflation is also at  a fourty year high in the USA and prices are going up there too. If you were an equivalent person to yourself but living in America, one way or another you would probably feel just as frustrated. 

 

People are miserable everywhere you go. I hope you can take some comfort from that. I know I do.

[Misdee]

On 09/08/2022 at 08:45, Boodang said:

I agree, but unless you're a collector surely you buy a bass to play rather than look at! 

Not sure how true that is. If you were to analyse it, most players are as much buying into an idea as they are choosing a tool to make music with when they buy a bass. It's as much a romantic process as it is a practical one.

[Misdee]

22 hours ago, tegs07 said:

I think about it as I spent nearly 20 years cycling to work having ditched a second car so I could put the money saved into a savings account for the kids uni fees. That’s nearly 20 years of wringing my soaking pants and socks out in the work bathroom sink and trying not to freeze in January and February! I really don’t want all of that effort to be eroded away.

Your correct it is difficult to make a decent return on any investment and making a lot of money out of instruments is tricky. That said I bought a couple of instruments alongside some other things rather than let the cash sit in a 0.5% account whilst inflation runs many multiples ahead. If I can just only lose 5% of the savings over the next couple of years its a result.

I just hope that they are grateful!🙂

 

11 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

 

But you are forgetting that Mars Bars were also bigger back then.

They were also health food ; "A Mars a day helps you work,rest and play."

 

No moaning about childhood obesity back in the 1970s. If you were a fat kid it was for the entertainment of others and that was your lot in life.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Misdee

[Lozz196]

A Mars a day helps you work, rest & play - I remember that well, still love them as much as I did as a kid.

[gjones]

1 hour ago, Misdee said:

People are miserable everywhere you go. I hope you can take some comfort from that. I know I do.

🤣

[Ed_S]

20 hours ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

I'm the opposite. I like that buying secondhand means that *if* I ever do sell on a bass (or guitar) I will probably be able to recoup the initial investment.

 

I recently bought a secondhand Fender vintera mustang (guitar not bass) in mint condition for a little over half the cost of a new one. When it arrived it did feel like I was playing someone else's guitar as the strings were heavier than the Fender 09s I prefer and the action was a bit higher than I like. I changed the strings & gave it a full setup to get the action as low as it would go without buzzing, and also added a tiny disc of leather to the end of the trem arm's grubscrew to prevent metal on metal contact which caused it to gradually work loose. Now the guitar definitely feels like mine and—my telecasters are probably feeling a bit neglected.

 

Aye, I know I'm strange, but I've learned to live with it. It does take both of us to make that world go round, though, because if I wasn't buying them new, looking after them impeccably and moving them on at a thundering loss, then you wouldn't be picking them up second hand in mint condition for a little over half the cost of a new one. Similarly if you were as obsessed with cutting manufacturer logo branded sticky-tape as I am, I'd have nobody to sell to! 😉 

 

That 'new' smell, though.

[OliverBlackman]

2 hours ago, Misdee said:

Buying a new bass made in the USA you are bound to be left sucking lemons if you start looking at the price in relation to what it retails for in the States. 

 

However, it's a lot more complicated than that. America is a low taxation economy compared to the UK. People get to keep more of their wages and overall taxes are lower.  That lower taxation is reflected in the price of consumer goods.

 

However, the other side of that coin is that folks are expected to pay themselves for things we take for granted in the UK. Like healthcare, social services ect. And don't expect the government to step in and help you if you fall on hard times.

 

You can't just look at the lower cost of fun stuff in America and lament how we are getting ripped off in this country. Yes the exchange rate is terrible at the moment, but inflation is also at  a fourty year high in the USA and prices are going up there too. If you were an equivalent person to yourself but living in America, one way or another you would probably feel just as frustrated. 

 

People are miserable everywhere you go. I hope you can take some comfort from that. I know I do.

I was comparing prices of the past to current prices - in GBP. Fender is an easy comparable and the Mexican range have seen just as high and increase as the US.

[sirmuppet]

14 hours ago, Bunion said:

I did prefer the paper wrapper and the card insert to add substance to the flimsy outer.

This blew my mind. Had no idea they came in paper wrapers and had backing cards. I'm old enough to remember the logo change and also before the gold drop shadow. 

[Misdee]

9 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

I was comparing prices of the past to current prices - in GBP. Fender is an easy comparable and the Mexican range have seen just as high and increase as the US.

I take your point, but the  UK price is largely dictated by the US prices combined with the exchange rate.  US prices have risen too. In the past depends on how far back you go, and how many factors you take into account. Historically basses were more unattainable than they are now if you take into account for how much disposable income most people had. If you were to estimate the cost of a Fender bass in the UK fifty years ago it was proportionately much more expensive. It may be that we are going back to that time.

[Musicman20]

On 09/08/2022 at 08:13, Burns-bass said:

Import duties, raw material costs, wage increases, transport costs, lower production volumes…

 

Anyone involved in selling stuff can tell you how costs have increased across the board.

 

Moaning about how much a Fender costs is the same as my dad complaining that a Mars bar cost 9p in 1965.

 

So what?

 

Given Fender has laid off 300 people they’re hardly making a mint from building basses and guitars.

 

https://www.guitarplayer.com/news/fender-posts-record-breaking-sales-in-2020

 

I agree that the prices are now FAR too high for an American Pro (is it II now?)

 

Fender got greedy. Simple as.

 

The lull in the market is coming so I hope they have all prepared for it!

[Bunion]

13 minutes ago, sirmuppet said:

This blew my mind. Had no idea they came in paper wrapers and had backing cards. I'm old enough to remember the logo change and also before the gold drop shadow. 

Ahh back when mars bars could be eaten daily 🤣😂

 

 

[Odin5491]

3 hours ago, neepheid said:

Just to balance things out (or try to counteract the confirmation bias), the G&L Tribute LB-100 I bought in December 2021 is excellent.  In fact, every G&L Tribute I've ever owned (L-2000, M-2000, SB-2, LB-100) has been great.

I don't doubt it; I've heard similar testimonials many times. I know I was the uncommon loser in the QC lottery, and I actually agree with the point you were making (honestly, if G&L ever make a leftie Tribute L-2500, I'll probably buy another ticket). Fender's Squire and Mexican lines must be taking a battering from the likes of Sire, Spector, Sadowsky and others moving aggressively into that mid-tier space.

[BigRedX]

16 minutes ago, Odin5491 said:

I don't doubt it; I've heard similar testimonials many times. I know I was the uncommon loser in the QC lottery, and I actually agree with the point you were making (honestly, if G&L ever make a leftie Tribute L-2500, I'll probably buy another ticket). Fender's Squire and Mexican lines must be taking a battering from the likes of Sire, Spector, Sadowsky and others moving aggressively into that mid-tier space.

 

IMO the sorts of failings you describe would be unacceptable on any instrument nowadays irrespective of where it was built and what price point it sold at.

[FDC484950]

To be fair the G&L L-2500 Tribute I bought and shortly afterward returned was nicely finished but like a lot of budget instruments (Sire included) when you looked a bit closer you could see it was built to a price - poor finishing in the nooks and crannies, sharp fret edges, slightly uneven fretting, nut not cut evenly or deepen enough, some electronics gremlins (MFD pickups are very hot so can exacerbate any EM interference or shielding deficiencies) and it weighed an absolute ton - 5.4Kg I think. The Fullerton Deluxe version I tried was definitely much better made and finished, although the shielding wasn’t much cop. I’ve seen one or two other Tributes in a shop and they were similar. Perfectly workmanlike and no problem to gig with I expect but not good enough for me. I think the only brand I can honestly state has consistently excellent at any price is Yamaha 

 

[FDC484950]

Just now, BigRedX said:

 

IMO the sorts of failings you describe would be unacceptable on any instrument nowadays irrespective of where it was built and what price point it sold at.

Totally. If Thomann can flog Harley Benton basses for £150 with no substantial issues there’s no excuse anymore. Problem is some of these issues crop up on much more expensive instruments as well. Not wishing to bash Fender as I have played some corkers, but I’ve sat in a shop with 10 new Fenders and 2 were excellent, 5 OK and the other 3 needed a full setup, overhaul, fret and nut dressing or even binning. If you can put 3 or 4 credit cards into a neck pocket gap what else did they screw up!

[CookPassBabtridge]

On 09/08/2022 at 20:20, FDC484950 said:

It’s also worth mentioning that very inexpensive basses are now generally speaking way better quality than 20-30 years ago. I remember trying a Chinese squier back in the late 90s and it was firewood, as were many sub-£200 basses back then. 

I was just about to post pretty much this. Back when I first started playing (20 years ago), I had to go to your independent local music shop to buy gear. My first bass was a second hand short scale Stagg which cost about £150. It was terrible, but the simple fact was you couldn’t really get a quality instrument for cheap back then. The choice was much more limited. One way of looking at things now is at least there has been a vast improvement in what you can get at the entry level. 
 

Although there is no denying prices have gone up a crazy amount more generally. Non-bass example but I went to buy some new bedside tables yesterday evening - the tag on the item said £79 but the tag on the shelf said £105. When I bought them the person at the till said they’d honour the £79 but that the price had recently gone up to £105. That’s a 33% increase in one go! 

Edited August 11, 2022 by CookPassBabtridge

[Crusoe]

I caught an episode of "Cash in the Attic" on Tuesday. There were a Squier Precision, a '95 Fender American Standard Strat and a 90s Fender Tele up for sale. There is an '82 Squier P bass (Jap.) on Reverb that looks similar, for £815. The one on the programme sold for £650. The Strat got £850 and the Tele £550. The CitA woman valued the Strat at 300-400, the Tele at 300-500 and the bass at 60-90! 😄 If anyone is interested in watching it, it's on the Channel 5 website, series 1, episode 7. The relevant bits are at around 14 minutes and 35 minutes.