So now Happy Jack has a Mike Lull 5-string neck...

[Woodinblack]

On 15/07/2022 at 15:10, Andyjr1515 said:

 The first is this lovely Fishman Fluence Soapbar:

 

 

 

On the fluence, do you have the same issues that they bang on about on Talkbass when it is related to the Spector Dimension (that has fluence pickups and sounds great), notably that the magnetic field is way within the bounds of the pickup body? It did sort of put me off when I was looking into getting a dimension. I am guessing not the same level of issue as it is not a fanned fret bass so it doesn't have to be as wide.

 

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/spector-ns-dimension.1498200/page-9

 

Here it is for reference, I didn't notice a problem when I tried it.

 

EDIT: I realise now I read it back this is only of relevance on a 6 string or a fanned fret,sorry! The fishman is one of the nicer pickups I have used (if not used for long).

 

[Andyjr1515]

18 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I am guessing not the same level of issue as it is not a fanned fret bass so it doesn't have to be as wide.

Yup ^ this. 

 

Not sure why they angled the pickups at all/so much on the Spector - but yes, it is the angle of the pickup relative to the strings that means that the outer strings are both missing half a magnet's worth.  @Happy Jack and I still have to firm up on the preferred pickup position but, wherever it is placed - bridge side, neck side or middle - the strings will be all be completely inside the strong magnetic width of the pickup with plenty of overhang either side.

[Happy Jack]

Well DUH! Obviously the pickup has to go in the sweet spot.

 

Right, next question:

 

How the hell do you find "the sweet spot"?

 

😂

[jonnybass]

This is a super interesting thread Andyjr and Jack...

[Andyjr1515]

With apologies to folks for whom Andertons demo videos represent the heights of irritation...but actually this, between 5.00minutes and 9.16minutes is a decent demo of the three voices of the soapbar at the bridge-only and the neck-only positions.  No point in comparing the 'both' demo bits because of the interaction between the two, but, basically any position that the single soapbar is placed from the bridge and moving towards the neck is going to be broadly proportionate to the bridge-only and neck-only sound sweeps.

  

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Andyjr1515

[Happy Jack]

Note to self: When demo-ing "voices" on a pickup, try not to spend too long pedalling on the open Low B. 😂

Edited July 19, 2022 by Happy Jack

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

With apologies to folks for whom Andertons demo videos represent the heights of irritation.

I thought it was just me. The guitar demos are OK, but the bass ones make me want to rip my ears off and throw them at the screen!

 

Sorry for the OT rant. As you were.

[tauzero]

Could you rig up some sort of jig to hold the pickup upside down over the strings of another bass, to move it around and see what difference the position made?

[Andyjr1515]

10 hours ago, tauzero said:

Could you rig up some sort of jig to hold the pickup upside down over the strings of another bass, to move it around and see what difference the position made?

I think there are too many variables to draw conclusions - especially as it would need to be wired up with the active components too.  I've found a video of Mike Inez demoing his single (they do a Mike Inez custom) and he has it broadly where I would expect...around 1/3rd away from a P/J bridge pickup placement towards the neck pup.  I'll freeze the video and measure it, but I reckon it will be close to the standard Musicman placing.

[Andyjr1515]

This is where  Fishman placed Mike Inez's single when they were trying to replicate his double pickup 'Moon Bass' range of sounds - I've checked the other basses they made for him and the proportions are the same in each case:

 

The demo itself has no real value - it isn't the stock pickup and he has clearly been watching Anderton videos and so is playing most of the time bottom open E.  Yes - another one, @Happy Jack   - but I'm guessing this was judged to be a decent position to keep both some treble capability of a bridge setting while still not sacrificing the thump of a P neck setting.

 

Anyways, it's whatever @Happy Jack's preference is, but - as a proportion of the scale, measured from saddle to nut (the above is 34" and Jack's is 35") - this is broadly where I was thinking before seeing the above.

[JPJ]

On most of the basses I've owned and liked, the front edge of the pickup sits just behind the harmonic which is about 6 1/2" from the bridge saddles. I've had a couple where the pickup is on the harmonic and they are way too bright for me. Don't know whether this helps?

[Happy Jack]

Whatever you think works best will be fine for me, Andy.

 

I am not 'aiming' for a particular sound or feel ... this will be a wholly new and unique bass.

 

🙂

 

[Owen]

On 19/07/2022 at 18:54, Happy Jack said:

Note to self: When demo-ing "voices" on a pickup, try not to spend too long pedalling on the open Low B. 😂

There goes a solid 66% of my repertoire. 

[Andyjr1515]

And so - next step is to cut out the double-the-final-thickness blanks and see if we are still in the weight target feasibility area.  First the billet was cut in half and the broad areas pencilled in:

 

And that gave me the thought for a cunning plan.  Ref the final shape of the lower half in terms of the over the knee balance...well, I can physically simulate it.  Leaving the lower blank uncut, I have cut the top half to shape - leaving a few areas over-size to give me the much-needed jiggle room:

 

And so the cunning plan is, in terms of confirming the best position of the lower waist for over-the-knee playing:

- the above half is double thickness and so is approximately the total weight (and approx weight distribution) of the full carved body, less the pickup and hardware.  2lbs 4 oz on the scale.

- so I could strap the actual neck to this blank, complete with tuners, in the correct lengthways position

- then I could tape some weights to the blank at the planned bridge and pickup positions

- then see where the ACTUAL balance point is and judge if anything needs altering to the design of the lower blank before I cut it.

 

What could possibly go wrong?    

[Andyjr1515]

Now...I'll readily admit that this is, perhaps, not the most elegant design I've ever come up with...

 

...but don't be too swayed by the fact that the headstock doesn't colour coordinate yet.  Trust me - a coat of shell pink all over and I reckon @Happy Jack will be simply over the moon with it 

 

So - almost finished 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK - conclusions

 

The above represents a very heavy bridge at 1lb, battery placed at the back but basically all of the actual hardware weight accounted for in broadly the correct place.  And the above (remember, the double thickness body blank means we have the full wood weight) is still within target at 6lbs 7oz 

 

And the balance point isn't crazily out of the norm - especially remembering that this is 35" scale

 

On the strap - as suspected, it's going to be fine

 

But, comparing the position of the lower waist apex to balance point of a bass I have here, I reckon I need to try to get that lower waist apex one further inch forward - if I can without spoiling the aesthetics.  If the drawing just doesn't look right, then we have a decent fall back - and that is to keep the present design and actually ADD some ballast at the tail to end closer to 7lbs. 

 

I'm sure there are some challenges ahead, but I'm chuffed so far - it all looks pretty feasible. 

 

[Daz39]

9 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Now...I'll readily admit that this is, perhaps, not the most elegant design I've ever come up with...

 

...but don't be too swayed by the fact that the headstock doesn't colour coordinate yet.  Trust me - a coat of shell pink all over and I reckon @Happy Jack will be simply over the moon with it 

 

So - almost finished 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK - conclusions

 

The above represents a very heavy bridge at 1lb, battery placed at the back but basically all of the actual hardware weight accounted for in broadly the correct place.  And the above (remember, the double thickness body blank means we have the full wood weight) is still within target at 6lbs 7oz 

 

And the balance point isn't crazily out of the norm - especially remembering that this is 35" scale

 

On the strap - as suspected, it's going to be fine

 

But, comparing the position of the lower waist apex to balance point of a bass I have here, I reckon I need to try to get that lower waist apex one further inch forward - if I can without spoiling the aesthetics.  If the drawing just doesn't look right, then we have a decent fall back - and that is to keep the present design and actually ADD some ballast at the tail to end closer to 7lbs. 

 

I'm sure there are some challenges ahead, but I'm chuffed so far - it all looks pretty feasible. 

 

So the next time someone complains that their bass plays like a bag of spanners, you can say no, it doesn't - but THIS one does!

[Richard R]

Which have the better tone - AF, Whitworth, or Metric?

[Happy Jack]

1 hour ago, Daz39 said:

So the next time someone complains that their bass plays like a bag of spanners, you can say no, it doesn't - but THIS one does!

 

Dammit Daz! You beat me to it. 

[Andyjr1515]

OK - I've managed to eke another inch forward without impacting on the visuals....I've judged best to stop here and cut the bottom blank out:

 

So next steps are to glue up the two pieces and then the routing and carving can begin 

 

[Beedster]

So, with apologies if this has already been pointed out, I haven't read the whole thread, but Jack has basically had a new neck built for a body for which he already had a neck, and then decided to get a new body built for the spare neck? Genius, getting another bass into the house without actually ever buying another bass 👍

[Happy Jack]

22 minutes ago, Beedster said:

So, with apologies if this has already been pointed out, I haven't read the whole thread, but Jack has basically had a new neck built for a body for which he already had a neck, and then decided to get a new body built for the spare neck? Genius, getting another bass into the house without actually ever buying another bass 👍

 

Concise and accurate ...

 

[Beedster]

18 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

 

Concise and accurate ...

 

 

Ironically of course you're probably one of the very few of us in a domestic situation that's welcoming of new basses. Seems almost a waste of such extraordinary cunning.....?

 

Unless of course it's s coded message to the rest of us 🤔

[tauzero]

On 22/07/2022 at 15:40, Beedster said:

So, with apologies if this has already been pointed out, I haven't read the whole thread, but Jack has basically had a new neck built for a body for which he already had a neck, and then decided to get a new body built for the spare neck? Genius, getting another bass into the house without actually ever buying another bass 👍

 

Those of us who favour neck-through basses do not have this avenue.

[bass_dinger]

On 22/07/2022 at 12:44, Richard R said:

Which have the better tone - AF, Whitworth, or Metric?

That is a question worthy of a whole new thread. 

 

(See what I did there?)

[Andyjr1515]

And so (at least!) one more thing to do before gluing the two sides together...that is, seeing if the billets need thinning down before I start.  Simple reason - my Makita thicknesser isn't wide enough to take a full width body and so it is a lot easier to thickness the blanks before joining than messing about with router sleds, etc.

 

But to determine the thickness, I need to confirm the cross-section.

 

I think the most effective compromise between weight/playing feel/control-chamber-depth I've done so far was the design I used for @Len_derby's Swift Lite:

 

 

 

Because I do have that extra depth of wood in the present blanks and no separate top, I will probably start the top curve a touch earlier (the start of the top curve of Len_Derby's is determined by the thickness of the poplar burl top wood) but I will play around a bit and see what I reckon will look and feel right while still taking out plenty of wood and still being able to fit the pretty deep Fishman EQ pot!