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Posted (edited)
On 26/04/2021 at 11:22, Dood said:

Whilst I am here, has anyone done real-world latency tests on wireless units to verify what the manufacturers say? (I'd be more than happy to do the tests, I just don't have the systems to check!).

Like you I can do the tests but only have a Smoothound system. I will test it in the next couple of days.

Edited by Chienmortbb
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On 24/04/2021 at 13:13, Al Krow said:

 Let's make that 3 in a row then for WL-20 fans then! Using mine right now 😊

On a separate note sorry to hear you've got problems with your SH. I've used a couple over several years prior to switching to the WL-20s and was very happy with them. One unit (an earlier model) had noise issues, but Chris at Smoothoound, sorted that out for free for me even though I had bought it used. If you drop Chris a line, he may be able to sort yours out also?

Have to admit that the WL-20s are just ridiculously handy to use and very compact, and for both those reasons I'm happy I made the switch. But bear in mind that the WL-20s don't work for some basses with jack inputs on their front e.g. I can't use my WL-20s with my Ibanez basses and need to revert back to a normal old fashioned lead.

Yes I have found Chris great when I have contacted him,

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Posted (edited)
On 26/04/2021 at 11:22, Dood said:

Whilst I am here, has anyone done real-world latency tests on wireless units to verify what the manufacturers say? (I'd be more than happy to do the tests, I just don't have the systems to check!)

Splitter and a stereo interface. Audacity. Measure how many ms one channel is compared to the other. Job done.

You've surely got that kit?

 

Method 2 If you've latency free monitoring on your interface, plug the transmitter into it and then the receiver into the second channel.

 

  

Edited by EBS_freak
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Just now, EBS_freak said:

Splitter and a stereo interface. Audacity. Measure how many ms one channel is compared to the other. Job done.

You've surely got that kit? 

re-read :) I have the test gear, I don't have the wireless systems 😂

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Dood said:

re-read :) I have the test gear, I don't have the wireless systems 😂

I thought you had a Smooth Hound? My mistake if not. Anyway, the sentence is ambiguous - it could suggest you have a unit just not the equipment to test it with. That's how I read it. Not important anyway.... just semantics. 

Anyway, for anybody looking to test the latency... see above!

Edited by EBS_freak
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Just now, EBS_freak said:

I thought you had a Smooth Hound? My mistake if not.

Anyway, for anybody looking to test the latency... see above!

It was a wider question regarding all the usual suspects, to see what the figures really are. I feel that the more well known ones will probably be pretty damn closer to the manufacturers details, the cheaper end of the scale, I'm not so sure!

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3 hours ago, Dood said:

It was a wider question regarding all the usual suspects, to see what the figures really are. I feel that the more well known ones will probably be pretty damn closer to the manufacturers details, the cheaper end of the scale, I'm not so sure!

Yeh, I keep meaning to do the chinese 5ghz ones that I got recently. Still I have time off, maybe I can get round to it. Have a gig soon so probably should start pulling my equipment out and see if it still works.

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14 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Yeh, I keep meaning to do the chinese 5ghz ones that I got recently. Still I have time off, maybe I can get round to it. 

Haven't dug the smooth hound out yet, but here is the 5g one, using Adium as I couldn't be bothered to wire up the oscilloscope. And a guitar, so I could get a faster attack

551224678_ScreenShot2021-05-26at12_58_44.png.7cc12c0f95f1fbcdbb1dfbd5fe2c7aa8.png

So we can call that about 5.4ms or thereabouts

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i'm running a G50, i had a g30 before that, only swapped as the g50 was available in the classifieds very cheap and a friend was asking if he could buy the G30.

I tried a smoothhound and didn't get on with it, didn't seem worth contacting the maker as it was only on loan from a friend for a weekend.

If i get a chance i'll see if i can get a latency measurement for the g50 at the weekend.

 

matt

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4 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

So we can call that about 5.4ms or thereabouts

I had to get my pedalboard out to check it, so using the same method, the smooth hound is here:

550389840_ScreenShot2021-05-26at17_18_29.png.2465d65b7fcf80557f8eead9c7c813d7.png

so about 7.9ms or there about.

And because my pedal board also has my helix HX Effects, here is it through this too

1598015724_ScreenShot2021-05-26at17_22_34.png.a3c74eec12c4b151dcf3babd53ae4e2d.png

so about 10.2 ms - maybe another 2.3ms going through the helix. doesn't seem too bad, although we are now up to a delay equivalent of 3.4M from the cab.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 28/04/2021 at 19:05, EBS_freak said:

Shure SLX-D14

Downsides

- not <£400, more like 600 quid... but hear me out.

 

Upside -

Digital (no compander that is associated with analogue systems)

Low latency

Not on 2.4Ghz or 5 Ghz frequencies... a lot, lot, lot, lot likely to be interrupted by wifi, phones etc. <- This is the killer point

Discrete tuneable frequencies - more likely to play nicely with all the other wireless you may be using. <- This is another biggie

Changeable batteries - so not return to manufacturer when the inbuilt battery goes south

Can be used with lav mic if you ever need to...

 

If not this, and the 2.4 ghz digital offerings are giving you headaches, go with @mike257's suggestion of the Sennheiser. OK, it's analogue - so it's latency is the lowest - but it has got a compander... but it's about as transparent a compander as you can get! 

 

 

Of course, this is urging on the side of going more "pro" - a lot of people have no problem with the Line 6 stuff, Boss, etc... Your mileage may vary!

 

i've just ordered these: High-Grade SWIFF Electronic Guitar Wireless System Rechargeable Transmitter Receiver with Super Long Battery Life for all Electric Musical Instruments, Opens in a new tabNot on 2.4Ghz or 5 Ghz frequencies. I'll let you know how i get on.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B089W449Z3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AYD48U20RPEWO&psc=1

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28 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

i've just ordered these: High-Grade SWIFF Electronic Guitar Wireless System Rechargeable Transmitter Receiver with Super Long Battery Life for all Electric Musical Instruments, Opens in a new tabNot on 2.4Ghz or 5 Ghz frequencies. I'll let you know how i get on.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B089W449Z3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AYD48U20RPEWO&psc=1

Those run in the free band 863-865MHz and that is incredibly crowded. Radio mics and all sort of other devices. It is also suseptable from 4G phones. I had to change our radio mic at the football club to a Ch38 version as we had so much interference. A crowded room would probably be the same.

Of course I might be wrong but I would be wary.

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Posted (edited)

So many questions on those...

Dynamic range is pretty low ~90dB. Analogue systems tend to be around 100dB and digital 120dB.

Are these things analogue or digital? The dynamic range would suggest analogue... but the fact that there is a latency even registering in the ms range would suggest digital. Typically analogue systems would be measuring latency in µs.

Things in channel 70 are typically analogue.

Simultaneous broadcasts on 100 channels? Huh? Analogue wise, you can only fit 4 intermod frequencies in channel 70. If you were to use a high density mode (like on the top end digital stuff, that crams 63 channels at 1mW within 8Mhz of spectrum... (more channels, yet reduced range)) you'd only get 15 units in the 863-865mhz space. The output power being advertised on these work out to be circa 31mW.

If they work, they work - although check out the compander, (assuming that this is an analogue unit) especially on bass, as it can destroy your lows and make the high end brittle and harsh.

Some prime BS in this marketing I think.

 

Edited by EBS_freak
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I'm experiencing regular dropouts with the Line 6 G10S during home use.  These are no more than a second but it's enough for me not to trust it for gigs.  I like the form factor and (as I bought a used one) I've live with this for home practice.  I've had no issues with the Sennheiser wireless (see below) so that will be on my pedalboard for live use from now.

https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/xsw-d-pedalboard-set

 

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46 minutes ago, gazhowe said:

I'm experiencing regular dropouts with the Line 6 G10S during home use.  These are no more than a second but it's enough for me not to trust it for gigs.  I like the form factor and (as I bought a used one) I've live with this for home practice.  I've had no issues with the Sennheiser wireless (see below) so that will be on my pedalboard for live use from now.

https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/xsw-d-pedalboard-set

 

Have you tried swapping channels? It sounds like something is interfering with the one you are using.

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4 hours ago, gazhowe said:

I'm experiencing regular dropouts with the Line 6 G10S during home use.  

Well, if you go to the line6 page, as I did yesterday to redownload helix native, you are met by a big banner saying:

IMPORTANT SAFETY ALERT: FIRE HAZARD REGARDING RELAY® G10 TRANSMITTER

CORRECTIVE ACTION REQUIRED IMMEDIATELY FOR RELAY G10, RELAY G10S, AND RELAY G10T WIRELESS PRODUCTS PURCHASED PRIOR TO MARCH 2020. 

SEVERAL INSTANCES OF EXTREME OVERHEATING AND A RISK OF FIRE PRESENTED BY THE RELAY G10T WIRELESS TRANSMITTER HAVE BEEN REPORTED SINCE THE PRODUCT WAS INTRODUCED IN 2016. ALL INSTANCES OF OVERHEATING REPORTEDLY OCCURRED DURING CHARGING

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Posted (edited)

i finally had a chance to dig out my pedalboard and try and get a measurement for the latency of my G50

 

I think it's 3ms? sounds reasonable , this was done in the confines of my study though so the transmitter and receiver were inches apart (i can't really be much further away in here) i was using a radial passive Di box as the splitter, with the pass through going to the g50 and the DI output going to the interface (scarlett 2i4)

 

Matt

g50.png

Edited by Matt P
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31 minutes ago, Matt P said:

i finally had a chance to dig out my pedalboard and try and get a measurement for the latency of my G50

 

I think it's 3ms? sounds reasonable , this was done in the confines of my study though so the transmitter and receiver were inches apart (i can't really be much further away in here) i was using a radial passive Di box as the splitter, with the pass through going to the g50 and the DI output going to the interface (scarlett 2i4)

 

Matt

g50.png

Pretty accurate to the <2.9ms specs.

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Been using the Shure GLXD16 for a couple of years now, flawless.  Picked it up 2nd hand for a very decent price, but it's worth the new cost.  I've been around enough guitarists with failing line 6 models to make me never consider them!  The Boss one did tempt me, I can't remember what I read about it that put me off, which isn't very helpful!

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22 minutes ago, Kev said:

Been using the Shure GLXD16 for a couple of years now, flawless.  Picked it up 2nd hand for a very decent price, but it's worth the new cost.  I've been around enough guitarists with failing line 6 models to make me never consider them!  The Boss one did tempt me, I can't remember what I read about it that put me off, which isn't very helpful!

Hi Kev. I have to say I'm happy with my Line 6 and I'm equally happy that you have had good experiences with your Shure system. One of the things that bothered me about it when I was looking to purchase one was that the cable that connects the pack to the instrument is not a jack to jack (as far as I could tell). I've also read a couple of reports that the WA305 cables have a habit of failing. I presume from what you've said, you've not have one fail? Are they unique to the Shure system? I've had Shure IEM's for years and otherwise love their gear so could be persuaded to try this set. Would appreciate your thoughts.

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Yeah it's the jack to mini xlr type.  You don't need the Shure cable, there are a few cable builders who sell suitable ones on Amazon and the like, from one of which I bought a spare.  No issues though :) Not really sure how it would fail really.  I guess if you stretch it or mess with it, but my pack is kept in a pocket on my strap, so the plugs are never pulled or stretched in any way.

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