Vintage Bridge vs Hi Mass Bridge

[wateroftyne]

19 minutes ago, WHUFC BASS said:

 

How bodies and necks interact is fundamental  - of course, I'm not disputing that but as I outlined above, the neck angle, fretboard integrity, fret integrity are what should be taken into consideration. Not the wood type. The original argument was about Mo Foster's new ebony fingerboard remember?

 

"Once wood is in there, stuff changes" - of course it will. On acoustic instruments, that's not something I'm disputing, it will absolutely make a difference to the sound of drums, woodwind instruments, acoustic guitars and other stringed instruments.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that wood type or "tonewood" isn't a thing.

As I mentioned when I first got involved in this conversation, my comments are in the context of a hi-mass bridge having a positive effect on Mo Foster’s bass.

[BassAdder60]

And back to the bridge question ! 
 

I’ve replaced them for other reasons than tone although sustain may or may not be a factor but I’m not concerned about that particularly.

 

More importantly it looks more in keeping with a standard Fender bridge and the adjustment is better and I can achieve lower action ( important to me ) 

 

The other point is Hosco threaded saddles seem far superior to the BBOT on Player Series that are famed at moving and grub screws becoming loose as you play over some hours ( gig ) 

 

Plus they look bloody cool too 🤟

[chris_b]

Roger Sadowsky said that first an electric bass is an acoustic instrument, then you electrify it. Michael Tobias said he changed the material his bridges were made of because he preferred the sound of the new bridges. Pete Stephens told me that they recommended the woods for their basses depending on the customer's requirements, because the wood created the sound of the bass.

 

So all these world class bass manufacturers don't know what they are talking about, and a bunch of amateur/hobby bass players know better?

 

You guys kill me.

[neepheid]

53 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

 

And I can prove that you are a rock!:

 

A rock can't fly

You can't fly

Therefore you are a rock!

 

 

I am also an island.

[JoeEvans]

11 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

I am also an island.

No man is an island.

[BigRedX]

20 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Roger Sadowsky said that first an electric bass is an acoustic instrument, then you electrify it. Michael Tobias said he changed the material his bridges were made of because he preferred the sound of the new bridges. Pete Stephens told me that they recommended the woods for their basses depending on the customer's requirements, because the wood created the sound of the bass.

 

So all these world class bass manufacturers don't know what they are talking about, and a bunch of amateur/hobby bass players know better?

 

You guys kill me.

 

And Carl Thompson, another highly skilled and renowned luthier, has said that there is no way of telling what an electric bass will sound like until it has been finished.

[WHUFC BASS]

10 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

No man is an island.

 

What about the Isle of Man?

[Beedster]

15 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

And Carl Thompson, another highly skilled and renowned luthier, has said that there is no way of telling what an electric bass will sound like until it has been finished.

 

Which is true and speaks to the variability between component parts 👍

[Baloney Balderdash]

59 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

And Carl Thompson, another highly skilled and renowned luthier, has said that there is no way of telling what an electric bass will sound like until it has been finished.

43 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

Which is true and speaks to the variability between component parts 👍

And those component's influence on the tone of the final product!

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[JoeEvans]

39 minutes ago, WHUFC BASS said:

 

What about the Isle of Man?

We're getting into deep waters here...

[Baloney Balderdash]

3 hours ago, JoeEvans said:

No man is an island.

2 hours ago, WHUFC BASS said:

 

What about the Isle of Man?

Can we agree on a compromise and settle for a peninsula then?

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BassAdder60]

All this discussion about bridges makes you really question the expense of some products in search of tone. Where a simple change of technique or pick thickness can make a huge difference to your tone ! 
 

Exotic rare wood for your next bass project ? Only if you plan to hang it on a wall as art 😂🎸

[neepheid]

Eh, it's all noise to me now.

 

Do I like how the bass looks?

Do I like how the bass sounds?

Do I like how the bass feels?

 

If yes to all three, buy the thing, I don't care how it got there.

Edited September 5, 2023 by neepheid

[chris_b]

3 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

And Carl Thompson, another highly skilled and renowned luthier, has said that there is no way of telling what an electric bass will sound like until it has been finished.

 

I think it is possible to know the ball-park tone of a bass from the wood it's made from. People know what Ash, Alder, Rosewood, Mahogany and Maple are going to sound like, and they know an Ash bass is not going to sound like an Alder bass.

 

The electrics in passive basses amplifies the string vibrations but the rest of the bass ie wood, hardware etc is working to modify those vibrations. Maybe cheap or poorly made basses are different, but good basses are more like fine wine vs plonk or filter coffee vs instant.

 

He's not wrong, but maybe Carl Thompson's statement is truer for the posh sandwiches of exotic woods that he favours.

[msb]

I have changed a number of bridges over the years. I always thought the original Fender style bent bridge was simple genius. It had easy adjustment , and perfectly did the job. I think it was those Rickenbacker folks that first started up with those high mass bridges that were a misery to adjust. One step forward , two back. I also love old Rics , despite the bridge misery.
I never cared for most high mass replacement bridges. I also believe sustain is over rated. I’m quite fussy about note duration.

However , I have replaced a number of Gibson 3 point bridges with high mass Hipshot replacements. I was always able to set the 3points exactly where I wanted things but felt the Hipshots looked better. I can accept being shallow , they are much easier and faster to adjust , and palm muting is much easier. I have an Epiphone Rumblekat that still wears the 3point. No plans to change that right now.

And this is where it gets interesting … I like Danelectro basses , and love the wooden bridges. There is a sweet spot where the intonation is fine. I have replaced metal adjustable Dano bridges with the wooden popsicle stick style. The wooden bridges are thumpier , I prefer the sound. 

[JoeEvans]

4 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Can we agree on a compromise and settle for a peninsula then?

 

I seem to remember that position being put forward on a Jefferson Airplane album. It does hold up, both as metaphor and mild double-entendre...

[Dad3353]

9 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

I seem to remember that position being put forward on a Jefferson Airplane album. It does hold up, both as metaphor and mild double-entendre...

 

The late Spender Dryden, rolling tape in the studio whilst waiting (in vain...) for the others to arrive and continue 'After Bathing At Baxters'. Certainly not the 'best' track on the album, but not without merit. 

[Beedster]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

I think it is possible to know the ball-park tone of a bass from the wood it's made from. People know what Ash, Alder, Rosewood, Mahogany and Maple are going to sound like, and they know an Ash bass is not going to sound like an Alder bass.

 

The electrics in passive basses amplifies the string vibrations but the rest of the bass ie wood, hardware etc is working to modify those vibrations. Maybe cheap or poorly made basses are different, but good basses are more like fine wine vs plonk or filter coffee vs instant.

 

He's not wrong, but maybe Carl Thompson's statement is truer for the posh sandwiches of exotic woods that he favours.

 

Yep, the more discerning you are about - and the more you pay for - wood, the more chance you have of building instruments using wood with largely consistent characteristics across instruments. Which is why top builders are able to make the statements about wood, and why all bets are off with Fender 

[JoeEvans]

22 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

The late Spender Dryden, rolling tape in the studio whilst waiting (in vain...) for the others to arrive and continue 'After Bathing At Baxters'. Certainly not the 'best' track on the album, but not without merit. 

Anything that functions as both philosophical metaphor on the nature of human existence and knob joke, simultaneously, is worthy of praise.

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

I think it is possible to know the ball-park tone of a bass from the wood it's made from. People know what Ash, Alder, Rosewood, Mahogany and Maple are going to sound like, and they know an Ash bass is not going to sound like an Alder bass.

 

The same way that they know that an expensive HDMI cable will give a more vibrant picture with better colours than a cheap one?

 

Has anyone carried out an experiment to find out whether those claiming to discern the sounds of different woods can accurately identify the wood?

[WHUFC BASS]

1 hour ago, tauzero said:

 

The same way that they know that an expensive HDMI cable will give a more vibrant picture with better colours than a cheap one?

 

Has anyone carried out an experiment to find out whether those claiming to discern the sounds of different woods can accurately identify the wood?

 

They have for guitars yes and believe me, nobody got it right. The sad fact with all of us (and I include myself in this too) is that we listen with our eyes in many cases. I think luthiers have peddle myths about tonewood that simply don't stand up to scrutiny for electric instruments. At the end of the day, it's an electrical induction circuit. 

 

A test that busts the myth of tonewood:
 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

9 hours ago, chris_b said:

Roger Sadowsky said that first an electric bass is an acoustic instrument, then you electrify it. Michael Tobias said he changed the material his bridges were made of because he preferred the sound of the new bridges. Pete Stephens told me that they recommended the woods for their basses depending on the customer's requirements, because the wood created the sound of the bass.

 

So all these world class bass manufacturers don't know what they are talking about, and a bunch of amateur/hobby bass players know better?

 

You guys kill me.

 

Lots of people make stunning, beautiful, eminently playable and gorgeous sounding basses.

A minority of those people are also excellent salespersons and become rich and famous.

 

That's all I'll say on the matter for now.

[Baloney Balderdash]

1 hour ago, WHUFC BASS said:

 

They have for guitars yes and believe me, nobody got it right. The sad fact with all of us (and I include myself in this too) is that we listen with our eyes in many cases. I think luthiers have peddle myths about tonewood that simply don't stand up to scrutiny for electric instruments. At the end of the day, it's an electrical induction circuit. 

 

A test that busts the myth of tonewood:
 

 

No it doesn't, and I honestly can't be assed to explain why it would be faulty logic to conclude so, and how and why everything on a bass or guitar influences on how the strings vibrate and therefor what the pickups pick up, that is the tone of the instrument, it's basic physics really.

 

Done it too many times, and it seems people insist on getting non the wiser regardless. 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

No it doesn't, and I honestly can't be assed to explain why it would be faulty logic to conclude so, and how and why everything on a bass or guitar influences on how the strings vibrate and therefor what the pickups pick up, that is the tone of the instrument, it's basic physics really.

 

Done it too many times, and it seems people insist on getting non the wiser regardless. 

 

So, would you claim that you can identify the wood that a bass is made from by sound alone? The wood will affect the sound to some minor degree because it will damp some frequencies more than others, but there are so many factors in that (not just the wood itself but the body shape, the routings, etc) that it's unlikely that any one piece of wood will affect the sound in exactly the same way as any other piece of wood from the same type of tree - in fact, even from the same tree. The effect that the wood has will be dwarfed by the effect of the strings, the pickups, the preamp or tone stack, plectrum or fingers, whether fingernails have been clipped for the fingers players, thickness of plectrum for the plectrum players, even the cable.

[neepheid]

38 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

So, would you claim that you can identify the wood that a bass is made from by sound alone? The wood will affect the sound to some minor degree because it will damp some frequencies more than others, but there are so many factors in that (not just the wood itself but the body shape, the routings, etc) that it's unlikely that any one piece of wood will affect the sound in exactly the same way as any other piece of wood from the same type of tree - in fact, even from the same tree. The effect that the wood has will be dwarfed by the effect of the strings, the pickups, the preamp or tone stack, plectrum or fingers, whether fingernails have been clipped for the fingers players, thickness of plectrum for the plectrum players, even the cable.

 

You're wasting your time.  Seriously, just walk away, play your bass and let the cork sniffers of the world sniff dem corks - it makes them happy, and everyone deserves to be happy, right?

Edited September 6, 2023 by neepheid