Vintage Bridge vs Hi Mass Bridge

[neepheid]

2 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

As has been said before.....  

 

 

 

Don't tell me how to internet!

[Beedster]

BTW I don't doubt the value of the work they do, but there is clear bias 

3 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

This exemplifies the non-science around all of this. First it's one study. Second has it been published? Third there's clear bias in the organisation's aims - committed to the use of non tropical woods. Fourth the study is destined to find the effect in question (check out the audience). And n=2! It's PR not science. There was a similar PR piece years ago from an organisation called the European Hydration Agency or similar, who pushed out numerous dataset on a regular basis about the need for people to carry bottle of water everywhere to avoid everything from mental illness to road rage. Oh, they also waned against the perils of tap water, so it was about commercially bought water.

 

You'll never guess who the organisation was funded by...........? 

 

BTW I don't doubt the value of their mission, but there is clear bias if they are arguing that what they did counts as a form of scientific research

 

[wateroftyne]

The vibration of a string is one of the factors that creates tone, right?

 

I'm still a little bit surprised that there are people out there who think that the wood the string is anchored to at each end has no effect on the behaviour of that vibration, and therefore the tone.

 

There's a reason basses aren't made out of dried mud.

[tauzero]

25 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

There's a reason basses aren't made out of dried mud.

 

Somebody on TB was asking about making one from clay, which as you know is dried mud. Don't think he actually did though because of various practical reasons.

[tauzero]

27 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

The vibration of a string is one of the factors that creates tone, right?

 

I'm still a little bit surprised that there are people out there who think that the wood the string is anchored to at each end has no effect on the behaviour of that vibration, and therefore the tone.

 

There's a reason basses aren't made out of dried mud.

 

I should really address the main point in this post. There seem to be three main schools of thought in BC (it's something of a spectrum). There's the "wood is all" group who think that the type of wood determines the sound of a bass, and that the sound of a bass can be predicted from the wood type. There's the "wood is nothing" group who don't think that wood has any effect at all. And there's the "there's a bit" group, to which I belong, that thinks that there is some slight effect from the wood, but that the effect can't be predicted from wood type.

[BigRedX]

There's people making Fender style guitars out of all sorts of non-tone wood materials, as well as ones with 3D printed bodies. Unsurprisingly they all make usable guitar sounds, and in the context of a recorded band mix I doubt whether anyone would be able able to pick one of those against a guitar with a "conventional tone-wood" body. Also as I posted in another thread recently everyone who has played the Born 2 Rock F4B bass I used to own commented on how much like a conventional P-Bass it sounded despite the fact that it mostly made of aluminium and has very unconventional design that negates the need for a truss rod in the neck. This along with the guitar made of strings between two work benches, seems to indicate that the wood or any other material used for the construction of a solid electric instrument has very little impact on the final sound, and what impact it does have is mostly unpredictable.

[Baloney Balderdash]

13 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

seems to indicate that the wood or any other material used for the construction of a solid electric instrument has very little impact on the final sound, and what impact it does have is mostly unpredictable.

No it doesn't.

 

Faulty logic!

 

13 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

what impact it does have is mostly unpredictable.

This though might very well be true.

 

49 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

The vibration of a string is one of the factors that creates tone, right?

No.

 

Not on an electric guitar and bass with a magnetic pickup.

 

However it is basic physics that the resonance caused by the specific construction and materials used of any given electric guitar or bass will actually affect the vibrations of the strings.

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BigRedX]

2 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

No it doesn't

 

So why does this sound just like a typical P-Bass?

 

 

It's definitely not due to the wood it's made from.

[Baloney Balderdash]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

So why does this sound just like a typical P-Bass?

 

 

It's definitely not due to the wood it's made from.

Which P Bass?

 

James Jamerson's or Jean-Jacques Burnel's?

 

But to be serious for a moment and actually answer your question without being snarky:

 

Because it got a P pickup placed in the traditional P Bass position.

 

However that does not mean that it sounds exactly like any given P Bass made out of any given type or piece wood, I will almost guarantee that it in fact doesn't, or that the specific construction and specific material used doesn't actually affect the tone to some, greater or lesser, degree, depending.

 

Please distinguish between general and specific here.

 

That a zebra got 4 legs and a horse also got 4 legs doesn't prove that it is in fact the one and same animal.

 

Neither would someone not being able to tell the difference between two individual horses (something someone actually working with horses likely would be able to tell), even if the two horses in question were actually of the same race and objectively, from a general perspective, did share a lot of the exact same visual traits.

 

Again faulty logic.

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[wateroftyne]

14 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

 

No.

 

Not on an electric guitar and bass with a magnetic pickup.

 

 

 

Wait… what? The vibration of a string isn’t what’s picked up by the magnets? I’m learning here. Tell me more.

[Baloney Balderdash]

3 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

 

Wait… what? The vibration of a string isn’t what’s picked up by the magnets? I’m learning here. Tell me more.

Yes, but it is not ONE of the factors, it is THE factor!

 

Please refer to it in the context of your own full reply (and then my full reply).

 

All the other factors you mention have an influence on the tone only because they influence on how the strings vibrate.

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[wateroftyne]

5 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Yes, but it is not ONE of the factors, it is THE factor!

 

Please refer to it in the context of your own full reply (and then my full reply).

 

All the other factors you mention have an influence on the tone only because they influence on how the strings vibrate.

 

You’ve confused me. What about pickup characteristics? Pots? Wiring?

 

All additional factors, surely?

[Baloney Balderdash]

 

4 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

You’ve confused me. What about pickup characteristics? Pots? Wiring?

 

All additional factors, surely?

I don't see you mentioning these factors, in the reply of yours that we are discussing here:

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

The vibration of a string is one of the factors that creates tone, right?

 

I'm still a little bit surprised that there are people out there who think that the wood the string is anchored to at each end has no effect on the behaviour of that vibration, and therefore the tone.

 

There's a reason basses aren't made out of dried mud.

 

 

Edit!:

Oh, damn, sorry, seems like I didn't read your reply properly, my bad. *doh* 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[wateroftyne]

Just now, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

I don't see you mentioning these factors, in the reply of yours that we are discussing here:

I don’t need to mention it. It’s a given.

[Baloney Balderdash]

10 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I don’t need to mention it. It’s a given.

Yeah, but not what we are discussing, I was commenting on your reply in specific, hence why I quoted it, not even the topic of the overall discussion in this thread.

 

But never mind, seems I missed a detail, where you actually specify those other factors as affecting the string vibrations, just like I stated.

 

Sorry, my bad.

 

Please refer to the edit my previous reply.

 

But frankly you could just have pointed out that that was what you said, instead of this silly deroute argument...  

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Beedster]

33 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

So why does this sound just like a typical P-Bass?

 

 

It's definitely not due to the wood it's made from.

 

@BigRedX please tell me that is your bass, that you want to sell it, and that you'll take £250? 

[BassAdder60]

So guys … what about BBOT bridges ?? 🙄😉😂

Edited September 6, 2023 by BassAdder60

[wateroftyne]

13 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Yeah, but not what we are discussing, I was commenting on your reply in specific, hence why I quoted it, not even the topic of the overall discussion in this thread.

 

But never mind, seems I missed a detail, where you actually specify those other factors as affecting the string vibrations, just like I stated.

 

Sorry, my bad.

 

Please refer to the edit my previous reply.

 

But frankly you could just have pointed out that that was what you said, instead of this silly deroute argument...  

 

I’m so confused. Deroute? Eh? What are you having a go at me for?

[Baloney Balderdash]

3 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I’m so confused. Deroute? Eh? What are you having a go at me for?

22 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

Oh, damn, sorry, seems like I didn't read your reply properly, my bad. *doh* 

 

 

Stop it, will you!

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[tauzero]

5 minutes ago, BassAdder60 said:

So guys … what about BBOT bridges ?? 🙄😉😂

 

If they were made out of wood, they'd sound different.

[Beedster]

10 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

If they were made out of wood, they'd sound different.

They’d also be BBOW 👍

[msb]

I do a Sunday jam , have for ages , and have no objection to letting other players sit in and use my gear. So it’s not uncommon for four players to take turns playing the same bass , through the same amp , with the same settings … and it’s surprising how different the same gear sounds depending on who is playing it.

 

day and night differences

[wateroftyne]

2 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

I should really address the main point in this post. There seem to be three main schools of thought in BC (it's something of a spectrum). There's the "wood is all" group who think that the type of wood determines the sound of a bass, and that the sound of a bass can be predicted from the wood type. There's the "wood is nothing" group who don't think that wood has any effect at all. And there's the "there's a bit" group, to which I belong, that thinks that there is some slight effect from the wood, but that the effect can't be predicted from wood type.

 

I pretty much agree, but I'd add a fourth school: "there's a bit v2", to which I belong, that thinks there is some slight effect from the wood which could maybe be predicted based on wood type, but interaction and natural variances within that wood effectively hoys a massive spanner in the works.

[Dan Dare]

Wood type may on occasion make a tiny - likely immeasurable - difference to the sound of a solid instrument, but as no two pieces of the same species of wood have exactly the same density, grain structure, etc, its pointless worrying about it. Construction methods and electronics are where the major differences lie. Sure, it's a completely different story with acoustic instruments. 

[Stub Mandrel]

3 hours ago, Beedster said:

BTW I don't doubt the value of the work they do, but there is clear bias 

 

BTW I don't doubt the value of their mission, but there is clear bias if they are arguing that what they did counts as a form of scientific research

 

 

Perhaps the initial experiments could start with ash, alder and maple...