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What cheap Wireless system?

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Experiences with the budget options like

Harley Benton Airborne, Joyo JW2, XVive U2, Line6 G10 and other plug/play stuff?

I value convenience, price and performance.

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Our guitarist used the Xvive and hasn’t had any issues at all.

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I bought an AKG second-hand. It is small (PSU, receiver, and transmitter), very easy to setup (a bit like turn both units on) and for the price (around £40) it is just fine. Sometimes it loses some parts of the sound (you can hear it like breathing), but if you have use it live or in band context, you probably can not hear it.

And no hassles with any papers, it's 2.4 GHz.

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1 hour ago, JakeBrownBass said:

Really? Personally i'd find 8ms of latency really really annoying. 

Well I am very happy with mine and a thread on here suggests many others are too but each to their own. 

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I bought this on Amazon for £68 a few weeks ago. It's amazing 

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/AKG-WMS40-Wireless-Instrument-ISM1/dp/B00505ORFO/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_12?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=P3NXJ1HWE9VZ7R5T32FE 

No latency in the signal and you can walk for ages. The tone is still good and my producer friend described it as "obscene for the money".

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1 hour ago, Bobthedog said:

Well I am very happy with mine and a thread on here suggests many others are too but each to their own. 

Nah, I'd rather be without that kinda latency... but each to their own, as you say.

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6 hours ago, Cat Burrito said:

I bought this [AKG] on Amazon for £68 a few weeks ago. It's amazing

This is the same as mine. Maybe "amazing" is a bit of an overstatement but a well working unit at a friendly price. Battery (a very common single AA) lifetime is very good.

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20 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Our guitarist used the Xvive and hasn’t had any issues at all.

I was really hoping the new Xvive2 would be good, because it's such a convenient plug and play set up with no separate pedal sized receiver unit. I found there was an element of glitching on all 4 channels which I couldn't shake just with home use, consequently I've not dared use it live. 

So I've stuck with my Smoothhound which has served me very well these past couple of years and the 8ms latency has so far not been an issue at all for me or ever been raised by bandmates.

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Posted (edited)

I've got a line 6 G10, very good apart from where the power supply plugs in, very flimsy, I've got round it by screwing a bracket on to the case to give more support, it is such a well thought out unit otherwise you do wonder what idiot thought it was a good idea to have power input socket straight onto the circuit board with no other support

Edited by PaulWarning

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Yep +1 on the G10.  Picked up one second hand and have to say it's a great little unit.  Fantastic to be free of a cable as well.

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Thanks guys, will be looking into the Line6 and Boss gadgets

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11 hours ago, JakeBrownBass said:

Really? Personally i'd find 8ms of latency really really annoying. 

You can set it to a lower setting and all those mentioned above have a much longer propogation delay. I have been using a Smoothound for twoyears and  never noticed a problem.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

So I've stuck with my Smoothhound which has served me very well these past couple of years and the 8ms latency has so far not been an issue at all for me or ever been raised by bandmates.

The 8ms becomes a critical issue when running it in line with other digital devices. The human perception of latency varies between people, typically 4-10ms. The majority of people will hit around 10ms. So when buying a wireless, also take into account any other accumulated latency that may be in the chain. This included digital pedals (including modellers) and digital desks for example. Then you have the delay incurred as the soundwaves leave your cab and hit your ears. With some wireless with high latency figures, you are already on the cusp of acceptable latency. Of course, if you are wearing inears, the problem is even more obvious.

Just background information for folks that are researching wireless really - not all wireless are equal, especially when it comes to latency.

Edited by EBS_freak

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3 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

You can set it to a lower setting and all those mentioned above have a much longer propogation delay. I have been using a Smoothound for twoyears and  never noticed a problem.

5ms... which is still almost double the latency of the "slowest" competitor products.

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Just now, EBS_freak said:

The 8ms becomes a critical issue when running it in line with other digital devices. The human perception of latency varies between people, typically 4-10ms. The majority of people will hit around 10ms. So when buying a wireless, also take into account any other accumulated latency that may be in the chain. This included digital pedals and digital desks for example. Then you have the delay incurred as the soundwaves leave your cab and hit your ears. With some wireless with high latency figures, you are already on the cusp of acceptable latency. Of course, if you are wearing inears, the problem is even more obvious.

Just background information for folks that are researching wireless really - not all wireless are equal, especially when it comes to latency.

That's a really good point.

I've been using mine bass --> smoothound --> back line amp with nothing in between.

The rest of the band are using an analogue mixer and not in-ears.

Pretty simple and old fashioned really - the 'innovative' feature is a wireless bass player who wanders around - lol!

Which is probably why it's just not been an issue, so far...

Hmmm...wonder what latency a Zoom B1-4  multifx I'm about to start using is going to bring to the party?

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2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

The 8ms becomes a critical issue when running it in line with other digital devices. The human perception of latency varies between people, typically 4-10ms. The majority of people will hit around 10ms. So when buying a wireless, also take into account any other accumulated latency that may be in the chain. This included digital pedals and digital desks for example. Then you have the delay incurred as the soundwaves leave your cab and hit your ears. With some wireless with high latency figures, you are already on the cusp of acceptable latency. Of course, if you are wearing inears, the problem is even more obvious.

Just background information for folks that are researching wireless really - not all wireless are equal, especially when it comes to latency.

It is only really when you concatenate a number of digital devices that you notice the difference. However in a live situation, it really does not cause a problem at 5 or even 8mS. That equates to lower than one cycle  at low C.  Two cycles at an octave above.

As you mention, put in a digital mixer (2mS) then a modeller and it is starting to get a bit more serious. Many of those cheap plug and play models are 15mS or more. In addition we have found that one of the ones our guitarist has swamps the WiFi signal to our digital mixer causing a loss of control.

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Posted (edited)
On 03/05/2019 at 10:30, Chienmortbb said:

It is only really when you concatenate a number of digital devices that you notice the difference. However in a live situation, it really does not cause a problem at 5 or even 8mS. That equates to lower than one cycle  at low C.  Two cycles at an octave above.

As I say, buyer beware. What works for one person, may not work for you. It's about making informed purchasing decision. If I followed alot of the advice I have seen on basschat, I would have a lot of crap for sale.

Live, there is no way that I would be entertaining a device that singular takes out a chunk or 8 - or even 5 - ms.

I see the argument about low cycles all the time. Everybody seems to forget that when you pluck a note, you are not given a perfect sine - you are given a note with lots of overtones and harmonic content also. It's that content which needs to be considered more than the fundamental.

Edited by EBS_freak

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6 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

In addition we have found that one of the ones our guitarist has swamps the WiFi signal to our digital mixer causing a loss of control.

This is a valid point. 2.4 Ghz only has 3 truly intermod free channels. So coordinating frequencies which you haven't truly got control over, can be problematic.

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I know it's not 'cheap' as such, but this Audio Technica kit is the business. Quite a bit in other online shops; another Anderton's mega-deal!

https://www.andertons.co.uk/audio-technica-stompbox-digital-wireless-system-atw1501?LGWCODE=ATW1501;56375;6335&gclid=CjwKCAjwza_mBRBTEiwASDWVvo-UOXYG2qFi0NfWORoz-QMj3nJHN2axwPNvNOnkN2Y-FXrPxUMvuRoCR9MQAvD_BwE

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16 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

This is a valid point. 2.4 Ghz only has 3 truly intermod free channels. So coordinating frequencies which you haven't truly got control over, can be problematic.

Of course the other problem is that the UHF units us ethe consumer 863-865MHz band amd that has probems from two directions. ON one side, 4G moble signals and the other Digital TV. At Poole Town FC we used a radio mic on those frequencies until two years ago when the wide use of 4G phones in the stand where the PA is housed, kept causig the signal o cut out. Th stand holds 250 and many of them are getting on but yhere was still enough 4G a around to swamp the signal. We now use a Ch38 mic (yes we pay our licence fee) and it has been fine ever since.

Gettinr back to digital wireless, I have my Smoothound on my pedal board and due to laziness have been just taking my Zoom B1on to Open Mic. While it is an easiy carry the cables are driving me mad.

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5 minutes ago, foxyFuze said:

I know it's not 'cheap' as such, but this Audio Technica kit is the business. Quite a bit in other online shops; another Anderton's mega-deal!

https://www.andertons.co.uk/audio-technica-stompbox-digital-wireless-system-atw1501?LGWCODE=ATW1501;56375;6335&gclid=CjwKCAjwza_mBRBTEiwASDWVvo-UOXYG2qFi0NfWORoz-QMj3nJHN2axwPNvNOnkN2Y-FXrPxUMvuRoCR9MQAvD_BwE

That looks a good deal. At the original proce it is a bit steep but AT is quality equipment.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

Of course the other problem is that the UHF units us ethe consumer 863-865MHz band amd that has probems from two directions. ON one side, 4G moble signals and the other Digital TV. At Poole Town FC we used a radio mic on those frequencies until two years ago when the wide use of 4G phones in the stand where the PA is housed, kept causig the signal o cut out. Th stand holds 250 and many of them are getting on but yhere was still enough 4G a around to swamp the signal. We now use a Ch38 mic (yes we pay our licence fee) and it has been fine ever since.

Gettinr back to digital wireless, I have my Smoothound on my pedal board and due to laziness have been just taking my Zoom B1on to Open Mic. While it is an easiy carry the cables are driving me mad.

Of course, the pro solution is something like ULXD running in high density mode... so digital, in say, ch38... gives you the ability to run up to 189 units.. (assuming no interference in the spectrum) as opposed to your typical 12 analogue units. Madness. :P

Edited by EBS_freak

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