uk_lefty Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 So it's come to a point where I just want to stop buying pedals that I end up selling on. I use effects sparingly: chorus, flanger, bass wah, I have recently bypassed my Hartke VXL as the tone quality from my active bass is excellent with nothing in between it and the amp. I barely use my LMB-3 anyway. I carry all this, probably a good amount of moneys worth, in a heavy pedal bag. I've got an amp footswitch to engage drive and sub octave. So for all the other effects I am thinking of replacing the lot with a multi. Ideally a multi effect would have an expression pedal, DI output (XLR) and should not require a lot of faffing about to learn to program. Current thinking is the Boss ME50-B, but I like the look of the Boss GT1-B. Then everyone here loves Zoom.... Last zoom pedal I bought was nearly twenty years ago so no doubt they have improved but not sure how they compare to Boss. I am not paying out for the Helix thingy. Are there any I've missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Whichever of the Line6 Helix range does what you want for the lowest price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 You can get a HD500x for a decent price second hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassfan Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Calling @Al Krow he knows a thing or 5 about multi FX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, bassfan said: Calling @Al Krow he knows a thing or 5 about multi FX That's kind of you to say, but... Mr Lefty is not looking to be overly spendy and is therefore avoiding the larger Helix models which would give him everything and then some (and my current flavour of the month, for compactness and processing power, is the newly released Helix Stomp which doesn't have either expression pedal or XLR DI out) My second choice recommendation would be a Zoom B3n, but that also doesn't come with an expression pedal or a DI out I've got a £14 Behringer DI to make up for the lack of this on these pedals; and an expression pedal is not really my thing...so I'm not sure I'm going to be a great deal of help here! 🙃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) this has got to be the cheapest option, I use the version with no expression pedal, exactly the same sounds as the B3, but no DI https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zoom-B1xon-Bass-Multi-Pedal/dp/B00K5LGSDC/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims?ie=UTF8 Edited October 8, 2018 by PaulWarning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intime-nick Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I would say the Zoom B9.1ut . It’s got all the stuff you’re after and a bit more (I’ve got one in mint condition that I got in a trade and don’t use...hint, hint 😉 ). You could go down the helix route (again, I’ve got an LT languishing in its flightcase doing nowt) but that might be a bit of overkill based on your stated requirements. The B3 with an external expression pedal would also be a good option (yes, I have that combo too that’s also doing nothing)...I think I have a multi-effects problem....hello, my name is Nick and I’m a multi-effectaholic... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_lefty Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 Hmmm lots of Zooms! I had a BFX708 for years and the only thing I worked out to do with it was make it so I could scroll through the effects silently to select the one I want, so I could do it mid song. I never worked out how to edit patches and stuff, but I expect that's easier these days? I see not many have the xlr out, I could save my Hartke VXL for that. I suppose you'll all say yes, but are there more useable sounds on the zooms these days? I only ever used two or three EQ type effects and the driven wah on my 708. No love for the Boss units? I like the idea of the older style one as it looks like three pedals plus an expression, and I'd expect it to be good quality. The newer Boss unit I've heard is great for studio and home use but not live...? Am I missing any brands or even older models like the older Line 6 stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Get a used Helix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 One point to bear in mind as you are working through the various options, is that the newer Multifx often have an upgraded chip set which allows for greater processing power and can result in better, more realistic, effect sims. So the Zoom B3n has the updated chip set whereas the B3, B1on and the MS-60B the older chip set. Similarly the new Helix range, which are undoubtedly a step up from the Zooms (which you would kinda hope to be the case given the price differential) have a newer more powerful chip set when compared to their predecessor Line6 ranges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_lefty Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 Thanks for all the input. The main aim for me I guess is to have a handful of overdrive/ distortion in one place instead of buying pedals to only find they don't do what I want. I'm not that bothered about amp Sims, though I do have a Fender Bronco modelling amp and I do rate the quality of the amp Sims on that. I play in a busy covers band, I use some effects for just the mid eight of a song and never for anything else, so a multi will help when we add to the set then drop stuff out. I don't need to be at the cutting edge of tech, but something easy to edit and so on would be helpful. I gave up too easily with editing multis in the past but something Windows based drag n drop type thing would help a tech idiot like me. The Line 6 Bass Pod XT Live looks like my kinda thing, so does the bigger zoom unit. I think I've been Boss brainwashed though... Aaaargh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songofthewind Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Zoom B3n, add FP02 expression pedal, download ToneLib editor, job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, songofthewind said: Zoom B3n, add FP02 expression pedal, download ToneLib editor, job done. +1 ^^ I can't argue with that. Plus a Beringer DI if you need DI. But I'd be interested to understand, other than the overdrive / distortion you've mentioned, what other occasional-use effects would you want to have to hand (or more accurately foot 😂) and which ones would you really need an expression pedal for? Edited October 9, 2018 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_lefty Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 Thanks Al. At the moment I use a flanger occasionally. A bit of chorus, moreso when playing fretless. For the fretless I use the enhancer on my LMB-3 too. I use bass wah every now and then, it's only for certain songs. I use a pre amp pedal with my passive basses, that has some drive and EQ to it, I also can use it to boost volume when I need to come to the front (once per gig!). That's it. I would like a more gnarly distortion but it's not essential. I'd like an envelope filter on tap too. Neither of which are essential. I'm not a big effects user, I could very easily go without. I like using effects and I like the ability to boost the bass every now and then and to thicken out or change the sound for maximum impact when I absolutely have to. We gigged as a three piece on Saturday and I found myself using effects more to fill out the sound through solos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 If you use effects as sparingly as you say I'd go for an older Zoom B3. Plenty of stuff on there to keep you happy and not out of pocket either. A lot of the other stuff seems like overkill to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 @uk_lefty based on what you're saying, the B3n + (free to download) Tonelib software should give you everything you need on the effects front. It doesn't sound like you'll miss having an expression pedal at all to me, from the set up you're after? I'm guessing your preamp / EQ pedal will already have a DI out, if you need? For live use with 3 pedals AND 3 stomp switches, and an easy to use interface, the B3n is really very good. IMO for what you're after, you'll not get anything better for the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songofthewind Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I find the Pitch Shift or Bass Detune functions on the B3n brilliant for thickening fretless, without the mid honk that chorus seems to add. Just detune a few cents to taste.That and a wee bit of spacey reverb, or a short room reverb, and I'm away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 40 minutes ago, Japhet said: If you use effects as sparingly as you say I'd go for an older Zoom B3. Plenty of stuff on there to keep you happy and not out of pocket either. A lot of the other stuff seems like overkill to me. Only points to disagree are: there's not a lot of difference in used prices between the two these days. The B3n is configured better for live use (but doesn't have a DI) and has a faster chip set. Zoom are no longer supporting or creating patches for the B3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songofthewind Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 My old Zoom G3 duplicates many of the FX in the old B3. The corresponding FX in the newer B3n are far superior in my view. As Al says, they are not that far apart in price secondhand. I use the DI on my MarkBass combo, so no problems there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, songofthewind said: My old Zoom G3 duplicates many of the FX in the old B3. The corresponding FX in the newer B3n are far superior in my view. As Al says, they are not that far apart in price secondhand. I use the DI on my MarkBass combo, so no problems there. Haha - you're using a Markbass Combo too! We're we cloned? 😂 But actually that's really useful to have that direct comparison from you of the B3n and G3. I've often felt similarly about the B3n being better than the MS-60B (which is still a great little pedal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songofthewind Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I think I said somewhere else (crap memory) that I run both of them together, the B3n in front of the G3. This means I don't have to change patches up or down very often, and sometimes I like to add a dab of reverb or a short room sound with the G3. The short reverb/delay effect really makes an envelope filter pop out big time. Plus, the G3 has a DI, if I need one. I have a Nova Dynamics in front of the whole shebang. The only problem I have with the B3n is that it really needs its own isolated power supply, because it is a noisy bugger otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, songofthewind said: The only problem I have with the B3n is that it really needs its own isolated power supply, because it is a noisy bugger otherwise. Fair point and as with other multis, it does like a bit of a drink when it comes to mA draw! But not a biggie to use the Zoom's supplied PSU separately I would have thought? I'm going to need to do that with the Helix Stomp which is > 1 amp just by itself. But if you're getting a bunch of pedals and want to get the most from them, I'd recommend investing in a decent PSU and there are some very decent multi-output isolated power supplies that don't have to cost the Ciocks Earth Edited October 9, 2018 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 So does the B3n sound that much better than the B3? I have a B3, never really thought that much about updating it, occasionally think about having separate effects, but then I play with a guitarist with a pedal board of separates and have to wait the 15 minutes while they try and find the buzzing or dead lead and I go off the idea again. I have an expression pedal too, but never get round to using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: So does the B3n sound that much better than the B3? I have a B3, never really thought that much about updating it, occasionally think about having separate effects, but then I play with a guitarist with a pedal board of separates and have to wait the 15 minutes while they try and find the buzzing or dead lead and I go off the idea again. I have an expression pedal too, but never get round to using it. The improvement in song-flow between our dep guitarist who has a Helix Full Fat and can programme what effects he needs for each song and then simply scroll through one into the next and our normal guitarist who has a bunch of individual pedals and is "Mr Dead Air Time", is astonishing. I think from what @songofthewind is saying, the answer is "yes" to your Q "is the B3n a step up from the B3?" Although whether you'd hear the difference in a band mix is another matter. I'm planning on getting the Helix Mini ("Stomp") when it comes out in a month or so's time and will then probably be moving my B3n on early in the new year, when I've had a chance to A/B them (I'm really interested to see what "more" I'll be getting with the Helix, given the price differential between the two - and if the Helix lives up to the hype). So if you're not in a rush... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I’d go for the B3n. A definite step up over the previous generation B3 / B1on and the generation before that (B9.1ut). The Ampeg sims in particular are very good indeed, I even prefer them to the ones in the Helix. It also has a Darkglass B7K sim that’s very close to the Helix one. I also prefer the Z-Tron filter in the Zoom to anything the Helix has to offer. The B3n also has a Sansamp sim that the Helix doesn’t. There are lots of things the Helix does better though, signal routing, external send/return jacks, flexible parallel chains and crossovers are all at your disposal. You can compress your lows and send your highs to a guitar amp for instance. The analog delays feed back and oscillate just like the real deal. Ultimately though, for me the Zoom matched or beat it in the few limited areas I care about! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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