The Impossibility Of Chuck Berry Licks

[Yank]

So they don't cop Chuck exactly. Hell, Chuck didn't cop Chuck exactly and got pissed off when Keith tried to do it like the record. So long as they cop a Chuck feel, you should be good to go. A gig isn't a musicology course.

[Happy Jack]

Yank, I get that, but if you play a generic Chuck lick at the start of every song and then repeat it all the way through, then every supposedly Chuck song sounds just the same. Don't ask me how I know.

A good example is Around And Around. The intro is really very simple and short, no need for the full-on Johnny B Goode thang. The structure is Chorus / Verse / Chorus / etc. and that second chorus is where Chuck plays an amazingly simple lick with a terrific bell-like tone.

Most guitarists don't play that - hell, they don't even try. They just try to chug their way through the chorus. Even those who play the lick play it low down on the neck with a muddy Les Paul sound, almost as if they're using distortion.

It's a great song, it will survive that treatment, but that's not what we're looking for. We WANT that terrific bell-like tone.

[ivansc]

I would settle for a band that just plays the correct chord sequence for Johnny B goode.

Let us not forget one of the reasons Chuck wrote Bye Bye Johnny with a standard 12 bar sequence....

I think the biggest reason guitarists don't learn the Chuck style and licks is because they all think it is "easy".
Bit like rock and rollers or jazzers etc who think country is easy.

Those intros and solos are deceptively similar & "simple" but pretty much every one DOES lead into the actual song logically. Think about "Talking 'bout you" and "Nadine".
Near enough the same song?
Now granted you could be forgiven for fluffing School Day and No particular place to go...... I used to do them as a medley.

[Graham56]

My Ding-a-Ling should be easy enough though...

[ivansc]

*sigh* I suspect even Chuck wishes he had never released that particular gem, apart from the income it must have generated...

[DJpullchord]

Play your own stuff instead!

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1506096126' post='3376479']
*sigh* I suspect even Chuck wishes he had never released that particular gem, apart from the income it must have generated...


[/quote]oh he's glad he released it, it made him a lot of money and his only number 1 in the US and UK, sad but true

[bazzbass]

[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1506065453' post='3376154']
Chuck used standard tuning as far as I'm aware.
[/quote]

I think I'll take the word of a successful million selling guitarist who played on a whole tour with Chuck over someone on a forum who never played with him, no offence

[casapete]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1506134411' post='3376685']
I think I'll take the word of a successful million selling guitarist who played on a whole tour with Chuck over someone on a forum who never played with him, no offence
[/quote]

None taken
Do you think your guitarist mate may have been referring to Chuck tuning a semitone
down in his later years, rather than playing in an open tuning though?
Apparently Chuck would do this and cause mayhem with the pick-up band who were trying
to watch where his hands were on the guitar neck to ascertain the keys of the songs,
which of course Chuck hadn't told them beforehand....

Edited September 23, 2017 by casapete

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1506134411' post='3376685']
I think I'll take the word of a successful million selling guitarist who played on a whole tour with Chuck over someone on a forum who never played with him, no offence
[/quote]

Who was the successful million selling guitarist you are quoting?

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1506158976' post='3376763']
Who was the successful million selling guitarist you are quoting?
[/quote]
Are you thinking he might join you?

[Guest bassman7755]

Another guitarist noone can copy convincingly is carlos santana, his phrasing and timing as just too idiosyncratic.

[ivansc]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1506170598' post='3376843']
Another guitarist noone can copy convincingly is carlos santana, his phrasing and timing as just too idiosyncratic.
[/quote]
....especially during his many years of playing everything ever so slightly sharp! OUCH!!!

[bazzbass]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1506158976' post='3376763']
Who was the successful million selling guitarist you are quoting?
[/quote]

John Brewster, of The Angels

[ambient]

It's the way he plays, it's his fingers, hands arms etc, possibly even the way he stands.

There's so much more to sounding like someone than using the same guitar, strings, amp etc.

Have you though of advertising on a guitar forum or in one of the many Chuck Berry Facebook groups?

[lowdown]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1506332252' post='3377894']
There's so much more to sounding like someone than using the same guitar, strings, amp etc.
[/quote]

Or Banjo strings....
Not sure if this is true or not ?

[i][color=#262626][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Here’s another mind- blower: until guys like Ernie Ball came around, aspiring string-benders like Chuck Berry found a secret weapon—banjo strings. Yes, that ultimate rock tone that Chuck Berry got on songs like “Johnny B. Goode,” “School Days,” and “Sweet Little 16” was derived from 8-gauge or lower banjo strings."[/font][/color][/i]

[ambient]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1506333587' post='3377919']
Or Banjo strings....
Not sure if this is true or not ?

[i][color=#262626][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Here’s another mind- blower: until guys like Ernie Ball came around, aspiring string-benders like Chuck Berry found a secret weapon—banjo strings. Yes, that ultimate rock tone that Chuck Berry got on songs like “Johnny B. Goode,” “School Days,” and “Sweet Little 16” was derived from 8-gauge or lower banjo strings."[/font][/color][/i]
[/quote]

It's probably right. I guess guys then, and now in many ways, have to use what's available to them. All of which has an affect on how they play, and ultimately how they sound.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1506313214' post='3377771']
John Brewster, of The Angels
[/quote]

Hang on, he was in The Bombers with Alan Lancaster of Quo, right?

[bazzbass]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1506337534' post='3377973']
Hang on, he was in The Bombers with Alan Lancaster of Quo, right?
[/quote]

Yes I think so.

Reading The Angels bio right now.

His first band was the Moonshine Jug and String band doing those old songs,they played at my primary school in 1973 as our teacher shared a house with their singer, my very first gig and I remember it to this day,44 years later

"you scream, I scream, everyone screams for ice cream round, round my baby's door....."

I really meant no offence when I said I prefer to believe John's version of events.

[mikel]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1506332252' post='3377894']
It's the way he plays, it's his fingers, hands arms etc, possibly even the way he stands.

There's so much more to sounding like someone than using the same guitar, strings, amp etc.

Have you though of advertising on a guitar forum or in one of the many Chuck Berry Facebook groups?
[/quote]

Well, yea. But if you are going to go to those lengths no one will be able to play a Chuck lick exactly. I think the OP was talking generally, ie phrasing, tone, dynamics. Also, did a lot of top guitarists back in Chuck's day not use flat wound strings? That would explain a great deal regarding the tone and lack of sustain.

[NewDad]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1506418877' post='3378526']Also, did a lot of top guitarists back in Chuck's day not use flat wound strings? That would explain a great deal regarding the tone and lack of sustain.
[/quote]

I suspect the choking effect of his massive fingers played a part. Maybe wearing gloves would help.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='NewDad' timestamp='1506425085' post='3378587']
I suspect the choking effect of his massive fingers played a part. Maybe wearing gloves would help.
[/quote]

Like this, maybe..?

http://youtu.be/IF83h5ssyjc

[NewDad]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1506134411' post='3376685']
I think I'll take the word of a successful million selling guitarist who played on a whole tour with Chuck over someone on a forum who never played with him, no offence
[/quote]

No million sales required to verify standard tuning, just an eye or two.

[media]http://youtu.be/YtrOr3WKmyY[/media]

(Seeing the original broadcast of this propelled me into guitaring.)

Edited September 26, 2017 by NewDad

[NewDad]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1506425526' post='3378590']
Like this, maybe..?
[/quote]

That'd get you about halfway there.

[casapete]

[quote name='NewDad' timestamp='1506425571' post='3378593']
No million sales required to verify standard tuning, just an eye or two.

[media]http://youtu.be/YtrOr3WKmyY[/media]

(Seeing the original broadcast of this propelled me into guitaring.)
[/quote]

This broadcast played a massive influence on my musical direction / career too.

Saw Chuck for the first time on the same tour at Doncaster Top Rank - my dad got me tickets for my 14th birthday.
( My folks dropped me and a mate off at the door whilst they went for a steak at the local Berni Inn!)
Staff at the gig wouldn't let us in as it was supposed to be over 18s only. However, when they found out it was my birthday present,
they let us in as long as we sat on the low balcony over the stage at the side. Blinding gig, despite 'My ding-a-ling'....
On leaving the stage after his usual 60 min set, Chuck shook my hand with a grin as he exited.

Back OT, yet to see any footage of Chuck not in (roughly!) concert/standard tuning too.