spongebob Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1473012630' post='3126052'] Is that definitely a Ric? I had him down as a Fender Jazz guy, but then I haven't listened to much outside his work with Miles Davis. [/quote] It's been used as example of an unusually un-Ric tone on the odd fan site...so AFAIK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 [quote name='alyctes' timestamp='1472772718' post='3124230'] I'm beginning to hear the reasons people like them. But I'm not likely to have the dosh any decade soon. So, if I want that sound, what;s the best way to do it? Any info/recommendatrions received with interest. Thanks [/quote] Throw a bag of tin cans down some concrete stairs and add ominous overtones of legal action ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 (edited) I apologise, but I've been itching to post the "worst miming with a Rickenbacker" clip. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaJ6vNyvaw"]https://www.youtube....h?v=aWaJ6vNyvaw[/url] You were warned! Edited September 5, 2016 by karlfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 [quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1473012343' post='3126047'] The neck pickup on a Rickenbacker is in basically the same location as that of a Gibson EB-0 - EB-3 bass. The classic Rickenbacker tone (Squire [i]et al[/i]) comes from having a reasonably low output single coil pickup in that location and another in the same position as a P bass pickup, as per the picture above. [/quote] Another thanks for that one - very interesting, and I'd often wondered whether the Ric "bridge" pickup was in roughly the same position as the pickup on a Precision, so thanks for confirming that! Does make me wonder why more people haven't built Precision-style basses with an extra pickup next to the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 How would a PBass with the pups in the same position in the body sound like a Ric when they are different scale lengths? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1473081593' post='3126670'] I apologise, but I've been itching to post the "worst miming with a Rickenbacker" clip. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaJ6vNyvaw"]https://www.youtube....h?v=aWaJ6vNyvaw[/url] You were warned! [/quote] Hah! I remember watching that. They were a bunch of young scallies who couldn't believe their luck at getting on TOTP by playing the same chord for three minutes. And people used to sneer at Quo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 That YouTube link also led me to one of all-time faves from that period, [i]Tap Turns On The Water[/i] by CCS. Great great track, and still sounds wonderful today. That was the point at which the really dark side of football hooliganism started to appear, but also some of the wittier use of pop songs by footie crowds (forget that [i]You'll Never Walk Alone[/i] maudlin nonsense). Bristol City adopted the CCS hit: Tap turns on the cider Watch the cider flow Cider makes the Tote End Watch the Tote End go We all come from Bristol Come from Bristol Town We all come from Bristol So get yer knickers down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1473083086' post='3126692'] ...They were a bunch of young [s]scallies[/s] brummies ...[/quote] Corrected it for you. The rest was already correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 [quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1472846621' post='3124822'] Thats because he has used a Jazz bass since 1980 [/quote] i was aware of that, i think i heard he used the jazz on one or two songs from Moving Pictures and the rest was ric and then went on to use the jazz more exclusively, but i like their earlier stuff too particularly 2112 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 [quote name='lowhand_mike' timestamp='1473091964' post='3126838'] i was aware of that, i think i heard he used the jazz on one or two songs from Moving Pictures and the rest was ric and then went on to use the jazz more exclusively, but i like their earlier stuff too particularly 2112 [/quote] Except of course the really early stuff which was a precision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 [quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1473012343' post='3126047'] I've talked about this (and bored the pants off of folk) before. My opinion is that the answer is fairly simple: build a bass with the pickups in the right places and you are mostly there. For example, this Peterbuilt bass is basically a '51-style P bass with two pickups in the Rickenbacker locations: The neck pickup on a Rickenbacker is in basically the same location as that of a Gibson EB-0 - EB-3 bass. The classic Rickenbacker tone (Squire [i]et al[/i]) comes from having a reasonably low output single coil pickup in that location and another in the same position as a P bass pickup, as per the picture above. Squire, Lee and co split the output of their bass, with each pickup running through a separate signal chain. I think Lee used different amps for each pickup, whereas Squire actually mixed the two pickups back together into a mono signal chain, bolstered with Marshall amps. The important bit is that the two pickups don't 'see' each other, so don't cancel frequencies or load each other down electrically. You basically have two '51 P bass circuits running independently on opposite sides of a 3-way pickup switch (that basically runs as two kill switches and a 'both on' arrangement in the middle position). Rickenbacker also used to fit 4.7 nF capacitors in series with the bridge pickup, cutting bass frequencies. This doesn't put the pickup ninety degrees out of phase (as some would have you think) but basically scoops the frequencies from this pickup right where they would interfere and interact most with the bassy frequencies of the neck pickup. However if you are running a bass in stereo you can remove these bass frequencies from the bridge pickup anyway, so it probably isn't all that vital to have it there. Chris Squire had a way of making all instruments sound like Chris Squire. Probably a combination of low action, rotosounds, warm-voiced valve amps on the brink of distortion and forgiving producers like Eddy Offord working with him to get a full bass tone. In the world of Yes Chris was given a lot of space so, luckily for us, you can hear a lot of his tone! I've got the multitracks to Heart of the Sunrise somewhere, and Chris's bass sounds the same solo'd as in the final mix. For a lot of isolated bass tracks I've heard you tend not to realise the full tone of the bassist until the other instruments are stripped away. Sticking with Squire for a bit, the other contender is that we don't know what he used in the studio, really. On The Yes Album there are times that the bass is in stereo and panned across the stereo field, but on Fragile it is pretty much in mono and down the centre of the mix. Squire actually acquired a 21 fret Mapleglo 4001 bass around The Yes Album time (if not earlier), so it is hard to know what tracks he used this on. That bass had factory Ric-O-Sound fitted, so perhaps he modified his cream 1999 RM bass to have a stereo output after he purchased the 4001? Beyond the bass we also don't know what amp combinations he used in the studio, and what limiting and compression was added to the signal. From memory there is some drum bleedthrough on the bass tracks to Heart of the Sunrise, so this suggests there was a mic'd amp somewhere in the mix. Another idea I keep coming back to is that Rickenbackers don't sound like Rickenbackers. New 4003 basses sound way darker and less charismatic, in my view, than the originals. I played an early '70s 4001 last year, and the tone was way more open and bright sounding. Admittedly it had quite a low output and, with some fingerstyle playing, I got some ugly transients coming from the bridge pickup. I find modern 4003 basses to sound like dark, rubbery Jazz basses, and the 'vintage' tone circuit (which introduces the 4.7 nF cap mentioned earlier) just muddles up the mids a bit, adding a subtle honk to the tone. Rickenbacker went through an odd period of winding hotter and hotter pickups, using weaker magnets and generally making dull sounding pickups. I hope a manufacturer someday mass produces a bass with single coil pickups in the Rickenbacker locations. Copyists tend to try and copy the outline of the 4003 bass, and then get into legal trouble with RIC. Ironically none of the modern clutch of copies sound much like Rickenbackers, with some exceptions, due to a number of reasons (pickups used and scale length being the most obvious). Somebody could produce a P bass like the Peterbuilt above and RIC could do nothing. [/quote] Great stuff, thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 [quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1472804422' post='3124337'] Surely it's all in the fingers?!?!! [/quote] No and don't call me Shirley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Who's this Rick you keep going on about? Loud, rowdy, punk a little dirty.... Rick Mayall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) [quote name='HazBeen' timestamp='1473171009' post='3127631'] Who's this Rick you keep going on about? Loud, rowdy, punk a little dirty.... Rick Mayall? [/quote] Honestly, you'd think [i]Devil Woman [/i]had never been written! Edited September 7, 2016 by EliasMooseblaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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