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Kex

Am I the only one that gets annoyed by adverts for fake Fenders

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I don't have a problem with a cheap bass that has been rebadged as a Fender, as long as nobody tries to sell it to me.

It just shows the bassist has a bit of penis envy for a real Fender.
It also shows that they are happy to fool other people and possibly themselves.
A decent bass remains a decent bass, no matter what name is on the headstock.
It is also a valid comment on the rising price of Fender basses.

I lent one of my basses to someone on what turned out to be a long-term loan. It came back to me from the person I had lent it to (dropped off by someone else) suddenly with a 'Gibson' logo on the headstock. It does make it so I don't feel like taking that bass out, especially since I bought a similar real Gibson inbetween times. I can't restore it to how it originally was, as the original brand nameplate was discarded. No wonder he didn't bring it back in person.

Edited by 12stringbassist

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If I see anyone buying/selling or asking where they can get logo's from I make a note of it mentally and will never buy any related gear from them. I realise this may well be over the top and display an alarming lack of trust in my fellow man but it's something I have always done.

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I think the Fender logo finishes off the look of a Fender-shaped headstock, and a lot of logos just don't look as good, so I quite like the idea of having a Fender logo to be honest. I wouldn't buy a Fender though, I just don't trust them.

For the record my three current basses have Moses, Squier and Fender on the headstock. The "Fender" is a Mex P neck and the pickup is Fender too but the rest of the bass isn't.

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[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1464299308' post='3058357']
The problem with BC these days is that every rant has been done a few too many times. I might start a rant about why people who want to rant don't check for previous threads containing the same rant?
[/quote]

That rant has been done. You should have checked for previous threads containing the rant about ranting. ;)

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The headstock of my sixer is marked 'Douglas'. Now there's quality for you..!

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[quote name='AustinArto' timestamp='1464301485' post='3058378']
I think the Fender logo finishes off the look of a Fender-shaped headstock, and a lot of logos just don't look as good, so I quite like the idea of having a Fender logo to be honest. I wouldn't buy a Fender though, I just don't trust them.

For the record my three current basses have Moses, Squier and Fender on the headstock. The "Fender" is a Mex P neck and the pickup is Fender too but the rest of the bass isn't.
[/quote]
So you should buy a Fender if you want a Fender logo. Fixing a Fender logo on a non Fender bass is theft of Fender's Intellectual Property and at some point someone will try to sell it as a Fender. A logo isnt simply a decoration. A logo is a certificate of authenticity and quality. Putting one on a non-Fender is a low-down thing to do; which I'm sure you never would as you're a decent guy.
/rant

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Not sure why it annoys people on here so much to be honest.
Why does it matter to you? Does it negatively effect your life?
Do all the other fake and knock off items in the world equally bother you?
If you want a bass that says something on the headstock go for it.
No difference to me :)

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[quote name='12stringbassist' timestamp='1464300904' post='3058370']
I don't have a problem with a cheap bass that has been rebadged as a Fender, as long as nobody tries to sell it to me.

It just shows the bassist has a bit of penis envy for a real Fender.
It also shows that they are happy to fool other people and possibly themselves.
A decent bass remains a decent bass, no matter what name is on the headstock.
It is also a valid comment on the rising price of Fender basses.
.
[/quote]

A couple of sweeping generalizations there!

I have a couple of home built Precision's with Fender logo's applied, I have absolutely no "penis envy" to own a real Fender, I already own too many of them, yet choose to gig with the basses I have built myself...why apply the logo, purely aesthetically, it completes the look of the bass, I would never sell the bass as a Fender and as other have already said, it is not difficult to spot that it is not a "real" Fender.

I am not trying to fool anyone with the logo, especially me, I have a Mike Dirnt Squier Precision, totally rebuilt, all replacement parts, custom colour, Fender logo applied again however it was such a good bass originally that I have happily left the "Crafted in China" logo and serial number on the back of the neck, it is lacquered in and could not now be removed without a total refinish of the neck, so it is there for life now. Most people that have looked at the bass simply cannot believe it was a budget instrument! So again not trying to fool anyone.

Most, but not all obviously! Of the copy Rickenbacker's out there are, to me, hugely inferior to the real deal, the Rockinbetter clone is about half as big again as the real deal, I had a couple and got rid because they felt so cumbersome, but it sparked enough interest for me to go and play the real thing, yes, I was hugely impressed with them to the point that I am probably going to buy one...today...yes really!

I do believe that the copy basses create a desire to own the real thing, I think Fender know that and that is why they are not so protective of their trademarks (and I guess the sheer amount of clones out there would make any effort at protection rather futile now) I do think Rickenbacker are wrong in their aggressive pursuit of copy instruments for the same reasons given above, however, you cannot argue that a Rickenbacker bass has better residual values than the majority of Fender basses have

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[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1464338155' post='3058508']
I do believe that the copy basses create a desire to own the real thing, I think Fender know that and that is why they are not so protective of their trademarks (and I guess the sheer amount of clones out there would make any effort at protection rather futile now).
[/quote]

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... ;) I also think that if Fender had more interesting options available for their P and J flagship basses and didn't charge an arm and a leg for a Custom Shop instrument, fewer people would feel the need to order what they want from those who are happy to put together basses to order at a reasonable price.

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[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1464338155' post='3058508']
I do believe that the copy basses create a desire to own the real thing, I think Fender know that and that is why they are not so protective of their trademarks (and I guess the sheer amount of clones out there would make any effort at protection rather futile now) I do think Rickenbacker are wrong in their aggressive pursuit of copy instruments for the same reasons given above, however, you cannot argue that a Rickenbacker bass has better residual values than the majority of Fender basses have
[/quote]

I think in Fender's case if they had known in the 70s what we know now they might not have been so complacent. Unfortunately for them the opportunity to do anything about it has long passed and they have to make the best of the situation as it stands.

Also the Fender design ethos works against them. It's far easier to copy an instrument whose whole concept is to be produced easily and cheaply by people without any real luthiery skills.

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[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1464336068' post='3058480']
Not sure why it annoys people on here so much to be honest. Why does it matter to you? Does it negatively effect your life? Do all the other fake and knock off items in the world equally bother you? If you want a bass that says something on the headstock go for it. No difference to me :)
[/quote]

Quite. I wonder how many people who are over-reacting to this issue are also worried about peak oil, population pressure, resource depletion, pollution and climate change? How dare people have the effrontery to apparently get something for nothing when we're all going to hell in handbag!

I've owned basses with applied F Decals and I've owned genuine Fender basses too. FMIC certainly haven't lost out as far as my investment in genuine Fender instruments is concerned. Right, can't hang around here all day - got to get down to Oxford Street to buy a fake watch, some fake trainers, a knock-off handbag and some iffy perfume before The Rapture kicks in. Byeee!

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1464330131' post='3058428']
So you should buy a Fender if you want a Fender logo. Fixing a Fender logo on a non Fender bass is theft of Fender's Intellectual Property and at some point someone will try to sell it as a Fender. A logo isnt simply a decoration. A logo is a certificate of authenticity and quality. Putting one on a non-Fender is a low-down thing to do; which I'm sure you never would as you're a decent guy.
/rant
[/quote] Absolutely !!!!

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Obviously if the intent is to commit fraud then that's bad...mmm'kay, but I have no problem using a Fender logo just to finish off the headstock of a self or custom build. It's a nice logo and it looks good on a headstock.

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[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1464338155' post='3058508']
......
I do believe that the copy basses create a desire to own the real thing, I think Fender know that and that is why they are not so protective of their trademarks (and I guess the sheer amount of clones out there would make any effort at protection rather futile now) I do think Rickenbacker are wrong in their aggressive pursuit of copy instruments for the same reasons given above, however, you cannot argue that a Rickenbacker bass has better residual values than the majority of Fender basses have
[/quote]

You don't think there's any chance that the reason why the residual value in a Rick is better because there's less chance of it being a rip-off then?

[quote name='paul h' timestamp='1464339174' post='3058527']
Obviously if the intent is to commit fraud then that's bad...mmm'kay, but I have no problem using a Fender logo just to finish off the headstock of a self or custom build. It's a nice logo and it looks good on a headstock.
[/quote]
Of course you wouldn't pass it off as genuine, would you? No! Not a chance. AND you will, of course make sure to keep in touch with all the owners after you to make sure they don't either, won't you. I mean, it's only natural to do so isn't it?

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[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1464339654' post='3058535']
You don't think there's any chance that the reason why the residual value in a Rick is better because there's less chance of it being a rip-off then?
[/quote]

Probably not, no :i-m_so_happy:

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[quote name='Sammers' timestamp='1464345131' post='3058620']
Probably not, no :i-m_so_happy:
[/quote] If thats the case - why is it 'illegal' to even advertise them on here :mellow:

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1464357738' post='3058827']
If thats the case - why is it 'illegal' to even advertise them on here :mellow:
[/quote]

You're new here, aren't you..? :mellow:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/209819-this-is-a-rickenbacker-free-marketplace/"]This is a Rickenbacker-free Marketplace...[/url]

Threats of legal pursuits if a copy was pictured on the forum, and as we can't guarantee that [i]any [/i]photo is of a legit one, [i]all [/i]are banned. Thank Mr. Hall for that.

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No I did see that (hence the comment) so would seem Mr Hall has scared you, but seems he's not scary enough to worry eBay or the numerous Bass gear forums on Facebook?

Edited by Kex

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1464366376' post='3058942']
i have no idea at all who Mr Scary Hall is but seems he's not scary enough to worry eBay or the numerous Bass gear forums on Facebook?
[/quote]

Try and advertise a ric clone on eBay* then, and see how well that goes!

* or gumtree or preloved..

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[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1464366830' post='3058944']
Try and advertise a ric clone on eBay* then, and see how well that goes!

* or gumtree or preloved..
[/quote] Have seen LOADS of photos on eBay - was that not the point, that its the image that we can now show?

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1464366376' post='3058942']
No I did see that (hence the comment) so would seem Mr Hall has scared you, but seems he's not scary enough to worry eBay or the numerous Bass gear forums on Facebook?
[/quote]
Multiple million$ legal cases don't scare some sites. The owners of BC don't have such deep pockets. Or maybe you would like to talk to the owners of BC with your offer to insure the site against such action?

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Do people really genuinely believe that the Fender logo is so much more aesthetically appealing than the Squier logo? I gig both a fender and a Squier (or I used to, I am pretty well all ibanez and G&L these days), and I would say aesthetically the logos are very similar.

I know several people that have changed the S logo for an F as they wanted it to look like a 'proper' fender, but the idea it actually looks better seems odd.

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1464366925' post='3058949']
Have seen LOADS of photos on eBay - was that not the point, that its the image that we can now show?
[/quote]

Have you watched them go to completion in more than a 1 day auction? because if it is not a weekend, they 'will' be taken down. If you put 'rockinbetter' in ebay you won't find any. I have tried selling a rockinbetter on eBay, and gumtree, and preloved. This is when you can get to talk to mr Hall.

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