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"Could you turn your backline down a bit ? "


JohnFitzgerald
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Well I think that sucks! ....it takes all the magic and feel, the bass pounding on your chest,the energy! out of seeing a ferocious band live ,maybe I'm getting old or the newer generation are getting a bit to ....well Tweed? you might as well sit at home and watch MTV!
Mettalica doing it doesn't surprise me..... They are just a panto band these days, trying to be mean and angry (very comical to me):-D

Edited by danbowskill
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[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1453576230' post='2960762']
"What did you bring that for?"
[/quote]

I've had "What are you doing here?" :D

Seriously though, over the years I seem to have been getting quieter and quieter and my gear less and less powerful... I'm of the opinion that my TH350 produces more than enough beans, even at 8ohms.

And I tend not to play with, or at least not believe, drummers who say they can't 'get their sound' without playing very loudly. Same goes for guitarists. If you're playing a pub with massive backline and everything through the PA including the drums, then I'm off. You don't need a stadium's worth of gear to actually play a stadium, in fact... it's nuts. Perhaps as one gets older, one has less to prove..? ;)

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Soundman - [color=#323232][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"Could you turn your back-line down a bit ? [/font][/color]
[color=#323232][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Me - "yes, of course but you'll need to give me a monitor mix so I can hear myself"[/font][/color]
[color=#323232][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Soundman - "Here's your monitor, we'll sort out a mix at soundcheck"[/font][/color]
[color=#323232][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Me - "Thanks - have a great night"[/font][/color]

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[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453645760' post='2961325']


It's already happening.
[/quote]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should

Edit.... I've seen a clip of the Metallica concert. It wasn't what I would call silent and was staged that way due to environmental constraints. Drums are drums and drummer's make noise.

Edited by 2elliot
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[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1453647258' post='2961337']
Quite.... but if you assume wrongly- ?
FWIW... out of all the engrs I've come across recently, I can recall 2...!!!! that were good.
The rest were ok downwards..
And if we are talking about a P.A being 2 115/18 bins and a couple of tops, then it is all pot luck.
[/quote]

The PA system I was talking about originally was a Martin F1 System and the mixer was a venerable but still excellent Soundcraft Series 4.
It was probably more capable of making me sound good than my amp was.

I've had similar experiences with Classic Rock Society gigs where it's generally very good setups and the engineer asks that you keep backline to a minimum and he'll give you all you need through the monitors. Our keys player, like many, doesn't bring any backline. He's already taking what the engineer is giving him.

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[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1453642451' post='2961289']
I don't mind a player with 1000 watts or a half stack. I mind when they can't get a balance, decent sound or play [i]with [/i]other musicians.
[/quote]

The words nail and head spring to mind.
If the musicians are comfortable with their stage sound this will not only help them play well as an individual’s it will also improves the performance, tightness feel and vibe of the band. Has an engineer I can’t think of anything I could at the mixing stage that will have a greater positive effect on the overall sound, engineers want musicians to be happy on stage. The flip side of the coin is if musician insist on playing far too loud there is portably very little I could do without been totally incompetent to ruin the sound has much as they are ruining it for themselves and the band.
So bring what you like so long has you don’t expect me to carry it and there is room on stage.

Edited by ironside1966
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[quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1453665961' post='2961604']
The PA system I was talking about originally was a Martin F1 System and the mixer was a venerable but still excellent Soundcraft Series 4.
It was probably more capable of making me sound good than my amp was.

I've had similar experiences with Classic Rock Society gigs where it's generally very good setups and the engineer asks that you keep backline to a minimum and he'll give you all you need through the monitors. Our keys player, like many, doesn't bring any backline. He's already taking what the engineer is giving him.
[/quote]

It is the monitors I'm concerned about, and if they are something like DB's then I'll know the rest is on par

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If a monitor is good, use it and keep your rig low. If it's not, rely on your backline. Phoning up and getting the PA spec? Ridiculous.

I've specced PAs in the past and worked with the hire team to get things right ahead of the performance - when I've been told to do so. For all else, you get what you're given - and like all pros, you work with what you are given. Anything bigger, you are touring with your own PA company anyway.

I can just imagine the abuse I'd (justifiably) get if I phoned venues asking for the spec of their monitors. If you want your monitoring out of the question, invest in a monitoring (in ears or wedges) rig and a bank of XLR splitters. Mind you, I would expect similar abuse if I waltzed in with my own wedges.

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IMO quieter is better, but most bands are too loud. I'm too loud, but I play loudly in loud bands and the venue's hardly ever tell us we're "too loud", so what do I know.

I spent years trying to rein in noisy guitarists and drummers and failed. I was like the idiots that drive in the fast lane at the exact speed limit. I gave up that "them and me" sh*t and joined the party.

My ear plugs are protecting me from any further damage so I just get on with playing in the band. Last Saturday's cover band was very loud and next Friday's Americana band will be very quiet. I love the variety.

As a bass payer I get more favourable comments on my playing than I did when they couldn't hear me. The bands usually get rebooked, so the conclusion I draw is that a good sounding band is better than a bad sounding band band. . . at any volume.

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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1453673182' post='2961720']
Am I the only one that seemingly doesn't phone venues ahead of the gig to get the spec of the monitors?! :P Seriously?
[/quote]

I'll call them as the venue will likely have booked the P.A but we will have supplied a basic spec and stage plan.
This is just basics. If outdoor we will want to know about power runs as well.
Depends who is running the gig...they may not know about all this stuff so we've got involved.

Any wedding in the garden with catering supplied will probably involve a genie..

So yes, after the power and stage etc etc ... you'll want to know what P.A is supplied
and how many people are expected.

Do you want the P.A to hit the back of the tent for a 1000 people etc..

It is no good booking a 16k P.A if it flattens the power...and the hire company
might send that as it was already loaded back from another gig

So after all that... asking about the monitoring is pretty small detail.

It is all very well accepting a P.A is supplied but what P.A.
If it is less than 6k..we could cobble together that anyway...
but you still have to 'charge' £250 for that to the gig.. as that will involve
a van etc etc ..
Any for that, I know the bass isn't going anywhere near monitors...

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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1453674412' post='2961745']
Just what gigs is JTUK doing anyway? I'd be interested to see what sound engineers say to him when he phones up about their respective rigs?
[/quote]

Why wouldn't I..and they don't see it as a problem as they seem quite happy to tell me all about the rig..
but we've turned up for a beer festival and the P.A has run out of steam about 20 yrds for the stage and we find out the
P.A 'company always does the gig as he only charges £150..

If you want to leave your name on that...good luck... but I think it reflects better if you tell people what IS required
rather than let them guess...and play at it.

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So do you pull out of a gig if the pa has behringer wedges rather than db ones JTUK? Or do you not take the booking unless they supply you with the sound crew's number before hand? If the organiser hasn't even decided which company to give the job to that could be difficult.

Turn up and do my best with what I'm given, if it's a crap fest we don't go back next time.

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[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453727382' post='2962133']
So do you pull out of a gig if the pa has behringer wedges rather than db ones JTUK? Or do you not take the booking unless they supply you with the sound crew's number before hand? If the organiser hasn't even decided which company to give the job to that could be difficult.

Turn up and do my best with what I'm given, if it's a crap fest we don't go back next time.
[/quote]

Difficult...which is why we tend to get involved in that stage...and why we cultivate companies and Engrs
and we can direct them to people we know. It also has to depend on the budget... but if people are looking
to supply an HK actor rig then we may just as well do it ourselves as there is no premium over what we could supply.

We would tend to price it where we could 'pay' for our own or spec a minimum requirement
but yes, some people are economical so you'll weigh up whether you'll do it again.

For most cases, we've been involved at hire-in stage.

I tend to research the type of gigs we go after--of this sort- so I know if they do things 'properly'..
It only takes a few gigs to know the score and decide you want as much input/control as possible
if you are working with people who will pay.
It is in noones interest to charge cheap and be caught out because you didn't ask questions.

Event managers should know the client and let you know how they play things..
If the gig is for a bunch of bankers @ a Picadilly hotel you have to know the audience.
The band may cost £1500 and think they are doing well, but the evening is costing
the client thousands so you do it properly.

Personally, I wouldn't use a P.A company myself with that level of gear you mention
as I'd rather pay someone I know £250/300 to bring along their kit, which we know well...

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[quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1453727658' post='2962135']
I check the tech spec of the venue online.
When you're sending in your stage plan and, it's reasonable to ask questions back surely ?

I have a fly away gig in May, when asked the preferred bass amp, I suggested I'd be happy with the SVT an 8x10 they'll have anyway.
[/quote]

Again, it depends on the supply...as they'll often say 'or equivalent' :lol:

And and SVT3 pro and Ashdown 810 isn't an equivalent. :lol:

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